Guide to Amsteel

**TominMN** · 11-18-2018, 21:44

Originally Posted by Hefty Hanger

"The length of the bury depends on the diameter of the rope. Counter-intuitively, the smaller the diameter of the rope, the shorter the bury needs to be. For example, a whoopie made with 1.75 mm Zing-it would only need five inches of bury."

I do not believe this statement to be true. I made a UCR last night for an adjustable Ridge line for my table cloth hammock. Its very wide and I needed something shorter than the standard 83%. I didn't know how much shorter. I made it with 1.75 zing-it, made the bury 7 inches. Figured more couldn't hurt. It didn't hold.

The bury needed for a whoopie or UCR to hold is not the same thing as a splice where the bury needs to be a certain length to achieve acceptable strength. The whoopie or UCR bury is about holding against slippage, not an issue of strength.

**PBThompson** · 11-19-2018, 11:10

Originally Posted by DeltaNu1142

CL, I would think, because you can achieve a shorter minimum hang distance.

How would you determine the length of the cl

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**scottsosmith** · 11-19-2018, 11:38

Originally Posted by PBThompson

How would you determine the length of the cl

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The length of a CL is basically (2 x bury length + working spare)/2. It divides by 2 because it is a loop. With 4 1/2" burries loop lengths of 6"-8" are typical and 5" is probably the practical minimum. 6" to 8" CLs will work for most gather end hammocks, I have standardized on 8" loops, and have never had an issue where I wished my CLs were shorter.

The length of a dogbone is basically 2 x bury length + 2 x loop length + working spare. With 3" loops and 4 1/2" burries, 16" is the basic minimum length of a dogbone. Shortening the loops to 2" takes this down to 14", which is still much longer than a typical CL.

**PBThompson** · 11-19-2018, 11:59

Thanks informative as always.

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**TominMN** · 11-19-2018, 14:31

Originally Posted by scottsosmith

The length of a CL is basically (2 x bury length + working spare)/2. It divides by 2 because it is a loop. With 4 1/2" burries loop lengths of 6"-8" are typical and 5" is probably the practical minimum. 6" to 8" CLs will work for most gather end hammocks, I have standardized on 8" loops, and have never had an issue where I wished my CLs were shorter.

...

I guess you're talk about the length of the stretched loop, not the circumference.

The thing is, only one of the buries on a CL has to be the minimum "safe" length. The other bury can be quite short. So, if you had a need for a CL with a 6" circumference, that is an entirely reasonable thing to make.

Although it's not mentioned in the last coupe of posts, the pass-throughs (often called Locked Brummels when talking about an eye splice) serve no real purpose when making a CL. Those pass-throughs do absolutely nothing in terms of holding the "splice" together in a CL. Skip them. A stitch through the middle of the two buries will stop the cordage from migrating free, the pass-throughs do not.

**PBThompson** · 11-19-2018, 15:10

Originally Posted by scottsosmith

The length of a CL is basically (2 x bury length + working spare)/2. It divides by 2 because it is a loop. With 4 1/2" burries loop lengths of 6"-8" are typical and 5" is probably the practical minimum. 6" to 8" CLs will work for most gather end hammocks, I have standardized on 8" loops, and have never had an issue where I wished my CLs were shorter.

The length of a dogbone is basically 2 x bury length + 2 x loop length + working spare. With 3" loops and 4 1/2" burries, 16" is the basic minimum length of a dogbone. Shortening the loops to 2" takes this down to 14", which is still much longer than a typical CL.

Is that 8 inch folded so 16 inch with 4 inch buries? Sorry new to making my own gear.

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**rasidi** · 11-26-2018, 19:31

Originally Posted by TominMN

I guess you're talk about the length of the stretched loop, not the circumference.

The thing is, only one of the buries on a CL has to be the minimum "safe" length. The other bury can be quite short. So, if you had a need for a CL with a 6" circumference, that is an entirely reasonable thing to make.

Although it's not mentioned in the last coupe of posts, the pass-throughs (often called Locked Brummels when talking about an eye splice) serve no real purpose when making a CL. Those pass-throughs do absolutely nothing in terms of holding the "splice" together in a CL. Skip them. A stitch through the middle of the two buries will stop the cordage from migrating free, the pass-throughs do not.

Hi TominMN

I'm new to splicing. Can you explain further how a CL does not really need a locked brummel? And when will the locked brummel be most effective.

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**Phantom Grappler** · 11-26-2018, 20:29

I’m thinking either locked brummel or stitching through bury-both sheath and core is needed to make sure splice doesn’t accidentally slide undone when not held in place by weight or tension.
A true locked brummel can stand a hard pull with no splice to back it up.

**TominMN** · 11-27-2018, 08:23

The pass-throughs that folks typically do with a CL are NOT a Locked Brummel!!! It is not possible to do a Locked Brummel when making a CL. Go ahead, take a piece of spliceable cordage, as if you're going to make a CL, and do the pass-throughs. Now, without doing the buries, give it a yank. It comes apart.

It's true that when you do an eye splice that the Locked Brummel is relatively strong. But, it is actually far weaker than the bury that follows as you complete the eye splice. The beauty of the Locked Brummel with the eye splice is that it defines and stabilizes the eye. The pass-throughs that some folks use with the CL sort of do that but they can slip and sometimes do. Besides, they actually weaken the CL a smidgen.

As with an eye splice, the Locked Brummel is also useful when splicing two lengths of cordage together.

**rasidi** · 11-27-2018, 10:20

Originally Posted by TominMN

The pass-throughs that folks typically do with a CL are NOT a Locked Brummel!!! It is not possible to do a Locked Brummel when making a CL. Go ahead, take a piece of spliceable cordage, as if you're going to make a CL, and do the pass-throughs. Now, without doing the buries, give it a yank. It comes apart.

It's true that when you do an eye splice that the Locked Brummel is relatively strong. But, it is actually far weaker than the bury that follows as you complete the eye splice. The beauty of the Locked Brummel with the eye splice is that it defines and stabilizes the eye. The pass-throughs that some folks use with the CL sort of do that but they can slip and sometimes do. Besides, they actually weaken the CL a smidgen.

As with an eye splice, the Locked Brummel is also useful when splicing two lengths of cordage together.

Thank you TominMN. I understand it better now.

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