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  1. #391
    donig's Avatar
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    Just treated my clothes and hammock for this season.

    Sent from my moto g(6) using Tapatalk

  2. #392
    Senior Member OneClick's Avatar
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    Since the sun's UV is so destructive, I always hang my stuff in the garage and open both doors to get a strong wind thru. I don't think the instructions say anything about that though. And after it's dry you're wearing it in the sun.

    But I wonder if there is any merit to that, while drying from starting wet?

    p.s. while searching, I found machine washing is better than hand washing. That's weird. Also, no significant effects from UV alone (but after initial drying).

    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4595206/
    Last edited by OneClick; 06-21-2021 at 15:19.

  3. #393
    Senior Member Twistytee's Avatar
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    I just treated my gear including hammock, backpack, hat, socks, clothes, etc. before my my recent trip. It was very effective against bugs as the few bites I did receive were limited to exposed skin where my cream or spray wore off. I did all of my treatment outside in the shade and allowed full drying before bringing back inside to store. I will say I’m not crazy about this stuff and wearing it while perspiring profusely doesn’t give me the warm fuzzies, but I guess the alternative of tick or mosquito borne disease is worse. Still makes you wonder what all these chemicals are doing to our bodies and environment.

  4. #394
    Senior Member OneClick's Avatar
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    I feel pretty good health-wise since it's been used for a while now. That doesn't mean 100% safe though though.

    The dry weather around here really seemed to keep mosquitoes down, but that's changing.

    We should work on ramping up the bat population to keep them in check...wait...bats...never mind.

  5. #395
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    For those worried about Permethrin toxicity:

    High concentrations (over 45%) of permethrin is dangerous to cats for the same reason acetaminophen is: cats lack the enzymes which would break down either of those molecules in the liver. Other mammals (humans included) do not suffer from this deficiency. You still wouldn't want to ingest permethrin, but it's not toxic even if you did.

    The EPA, based on testing with mice and rats, has decided that permethrin is a likely carcinogen if you ingest large quantities of it. It is not readily absorbed by the skin, less than 0.5% absorption over 48 hours. You are just not getting much exposure from 0.5% Permethrin spray even if you're sleeping naked, for 12 hours in the hammock every day.

    If you're using any quantity of Methanol in your alcohol burners, you're taking much larger health risks than associated with permethrin. Methanol is readily absorbed by the skin where it can damage the nervous system, liver, and kidneys; and it's fatal in surprisingly small quantities (as little as 10 mL) if ingested.

  6. #396
    Brian Miller's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OneClick View Post
    I only had 4oz left and I wanted to get stuff treated yesterday. I ended up with about 80oz, so slightly weaker by a few ounces. Still smelled strong AF. Mixed in a 5-gal bucket, I was able to easily treat my hammock, pants, 2 t-shirts, pair of socks. Then I poured the solution into a spray bottle and did my pack, shoes, 2 hats and hung everything up.

    After pouring the solution into the clear bottle I noticed it was now brownish, similar to a dark apple cider. I wonder if it took some color out of something, or if one of the items was just dirty. I can't imagine since the clothes were previously cleaned and the hammock hasn't been used much.

    Everything was hanging in the wind last night for a couple hours and now in my garage. I finally remembered what this stuff smells like!!!! Years ago I bought some freshener spray for cars and the scent was "That New Car Smell". I remember it smelling more like a carpet or shoe store. Some kind of leather/rubber mix.
    I haven't been keeping up with this thread for awhile. After reviewing some of the latest posts I found @OneCick's post enlightening because I store my Martin's under similar conditions.

    A month ago I treated my duds for a trip into the arid high country where ticks can be a problem. I didn't see the the light crystals on the damp garments but didn't think much about it. No ticks were encountered by any of us, which was fortunate. After reviewing some of the latest posts I checked the bottle of my remaining Martin's and there is separation. I'm going to dispose of the remaining mix and shake well before measuring out concentrate for the next batch. Maybe Sawyer had encountered a similar issue during product development and spec'd their spray pump to handle the particles.

    If it clogs the Sawyer bottle pump I'll mix it with the remaining concentrate in a bucket or bag and soak my stuff which I suspect is not as efficient with product as spraying but may give longer lasting protection for a trip next week into damper high country where mosquitoes are way more of a problem than I've ever experienced anywhere in the state with ticks.

    *edit - Shook the Martin's bottle and had plenty of flecks on my trousers when sprayed . There was a little intermittent clogging of the pump when the bottle was nearly empty but it quickly cleared itself when it did occur.
    Last edited by Brian Miller; 07-08-2021 at 01:25.
    Brian
    (formerly Oblique Angler)

    Job 41:1, 2

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  7. #397
    Brian Miller's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dublinlin View Post
    The permethrin binds to the fibers of the fabric as it dries. Once DRIED onto the fabric is causes no problems to cats and I’m trusting not to people either.

    Interestingly, it IS used in lotion or cream form (brand name Elimite) for full body overnight application for humans for scabies treatment. (I’m a nurse and have seen it used as such.) That said, I still would not get it on my skin when treating gear. But once it has dried and bonded to the fabric, I have no qualms. I’d sure rather risk Permethrin on my clothes than mosquitos and hordes of ticks. But HYOH.

    (One Click, I’m surprised at the poor results you’ve had with permethrin. I live in a part of the country that is heavily tick infested (heavily wooded Ozarks) and nothing crawls onto me when I’m wearing permethrin treated socks, pants, and long sleeved shirt. Not the big ones or (worse) the swarming herds of microscopically small seed ticks.)

    (I even periodically treat my work scrubs because my profession does sometimes bring me in contact with environments that are infested with bed bugs or patients covered in scabies...stuff I don’t want to risk allowing to invisibly hitch-hike on my scrubs back to my own home and family.)
    Are the glitter flecks on my garments the active ingredient, and does the DIY application really bond to the treated fabric? I have been using Permethrin for 5 years and suspect the flecks are the active ingredient but I still don't know how well they "bond" to the fabric. After getting sick with symptoms that are indicated for Permethrin ingestion after wearing garments sprayed with a DYI mix, and not getting sick again after rinsing the garments I was in when I got sick, and not noticing the flecks on garments after washing, and not seeing the flecks on the inside surface of DIY spray treated garments, and Sawyer marketing a spray delivered product after its research (including liability), I'm going to continue to spray on the fabric outer surface until I know more.
    *edit for clarity
    *edit - Consumer Reports article: https://www.consumerreports.org/inse...othing-safely/
    Last edited by Brian Miller; 07-08-2021 at 10:30.
    Brian
    (formerly Oblique Angler)

    Job 41:1, 2

    `•.Έ.•΄―`•.Έ.•΄―`•.Έ.•΄><((((Ί>`•.Έ.•΄―`•.Έ.•΄―`•. Έ
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    `•.Έ.•΄><((((Ί>―`•.Έ.•΄―`•.Έ.•΄`•.Έ.•΄―`•.Έ.•΄―`•. Έ

  8. #398
    Senior Member OneClick's Avatar
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    Regarding the crsytals, flecks, etc, I purchased two more bottles recently. I used up one with no issues. No crystals and no separation in the bottle. The second bottle has not been opened yet and there is no separation. It also passed thru an old Windex sprayer head smooth as water.

    I stored both of these indoors this time. Maybe the temp fluctuation in the garage screwed it up? Or maybe it was a fluke.

  9. #399
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    I'd drop a note to Sawyer re the flecks & separations or any other questions. I'll bet they suggest tossing it and using new. I left mine in the garage one winter (temps to -20*F), and they did not recommend using the product that had been frozen and thawed 9multiple times, no less). They returned my emails promptly.

  10. #400
    Brian Miller's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OneClick View Post
    Regarding the crsytals, flecks, etc, I purchased two more bottles recently. I used up one with no issues. No crystals and no separation in the bottle. The second bottle has not been opened yet and there is no separation. It also passed thru an old Windex sprayer head smooth as water.

    I stored both of these indoors this time. Maybe the temp fluctuation in the garage screwed it up? Or maybe it was a fluke.
    Thanks for the quick response.
    Does anybody know if the glitter is the active Permethrin ingredient?

    After the garments dry the flecks brush right off.
    Is there enough Permethrin left on the garment to repel ticks and mosquitoes when the flecks are gone?
    and
    If the glitter is the Permethrin it could be an inhalation hazard. (Users of this DIY treatment method should know this. I think about this because I've gotten sick in the field.)
    Brian
    (formerly Oblique Angler)

    Job 41:1, 2

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    `•.Έ.•΄―`•.Έ.•΄―`•.Έ.•΄―`•.Έ.•΄―`•.Έ.•΄><((((Ί>`•. Έ
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