16 degrees is cold...

[BillyBob58]

The report of cold feet and legs is interesting, amongst several testers. I remember cold feet being a problem during some of my first tests with a SS, or sometime cold calves or both.

Bonsahiker, you said you woke up sweating, vented, then woke up sick. Did your feet get cold before going in, or only after coming back from the house?

I'm with Pan on the Blue pad. That is definitely not the highest quality pad around. And I highly suspect that 16*F might be too much for it. Plus did you say your feet were freezing before you climbed back in? Again ditto Pan, if you could have tolerated it, side straddle hops might have done wonders. I've seen that work when, while waiting to rig up a Tyrolean traverse for a river crossing in a June snowstorm, some group members started to clearly become blue lipped and stupid from hypothermia. We had the stoves fired up for hot chocolate, but while waiting for water to boil we got these cold guys to start running in place and doing side straddle hops. It took some verbal abuse to ge them to do it, but within a few minutes they were all much better. Then some hot chocolate fixed them right up to toasty again.

Also, a hot water bottle in a wool sock can work miracles. Just put it on whatever is cold. Or even use more than one.

The first time I remember not having cold feet at all, even with fewer socks than usual, and no VB socks- was with my Pea Pod. After that, my feet also stayed plenty warm with my MW4- in both cases at about 11*F or so. I hope to test my SS some more this winter and see if I have the cold feet again. But if I do, I will just add a leg pad.

[TinaLouise]

Must be contagious. .

agreed

My husband was taking the scouts out camping this weekend and I was "supposed" to stay home and watch the dogs. I was checking the weather at the last minute for them and when I saw that it was forcasted for LOTS of rain & wind for Friday night and then droping to below freezing for Sat. night, well I just had to find a sitter for the dogs and go too!!! Took me 20 minutes to pack up. Yep, I forgot a few things!! Had a fantastic time though.

Best thing I can suggest for cold feet is a pair of wooly clean socks that's just for night time (no wearing of these in your boots) and those chemical toe warmers. Plus if you've got a down vest or sweater, wrap your feet with it.

Don't know what to say about the sick feeling??? Were you only sick feeling while in the hammock? Or did you actually come down with a cold or sinus problem???

TinaLouise

[bonsaihiker]

Don't use a space bag, as you say, condensation can be an issue: you will get wet, then staying warm is nearly impossible. If you want put a space blanket under you.

So you're not a fan of vapor barrier liners? I've never used one, but have always had something available "just in case." I know some people swear by them, but I'd rather find a way to stay warm and dry.

In the really cold temps I add a blue pad over a truckers windscreen. At somewhere tween 6 & 14 I got (get?) too hot, have to get out & cool off (& dry off) during the night.

Sounds like me. Man, I hate drying out with frigid air...

I like my windshield reflector. It is reflective mylar bonded to a closed-cell pad about 1/16 inch thick. It's comfortable, quiet, easy to use/place, wide, and adds just a little bit of warmth. I think next time I'll use that with my HH underpad, and maybe keep my army-issue CCF handy. When I started hammocking I added a blue pad cross-ways, held on by the tie straps, for shoulder coverage. That might work well to hold things together where I want them.

[bonsaihiker]

The report of cold feet and legs is interesting, amongst several testers. I remember cold feet being a problem during some of my first tests with a SS, or sometime cold calves or both.

Bonsahiker, you said you woke up sweating, vented, then woke up sick. Did your feet get cold before going in, or only after coming back from the house?

I'm with Pan on the Blue pad. That is definitely not the highest quality pad around. And I highly suspect that 16*F might be too much for it. Plus did you say your feet were freezing before you climbed back in? Again ditto Pan, if you could have tolerated it, side straddle hops might have done wonders. I've seen that work when, while waiting to rig up a Tyrolean traverse for a river crossing in a June snowstorm, some group members started to clearly become blue lipped and stupid from hypothermia. We had the stoves fired up for hot chocolate, but while waiting for water to boil we got these cold guys to start running in place and doing side straddle hops. It took some verbal abuse to ge them to do it, but within a few minutes they were all much better. Then some hot chocolate fixed them right up to toasty again.

Also, a hot water bottle in a wool sock can work miracles. Just put it on whatever is cold. Or even use more than one.

The first time I remember not having cold feet at all, even with fewer socks than usual, and no VB socks- was with my Pea Pod. After that, my feet also stayed plenty warm with my MW4- in both cases at about 11*F or so. I hope to test my SS some more this winter and see if I have the cold feet again. But if I do, I will just add a leg pad.

Wow, thanks Billy Bob. Lots of great info as always. I was pretty warm before going inside (except for my nose, but what are you gonna do...). My feet actually started to get cold inside the house (we turn our furnace down at night), then never warmed back up.

I do like the hot water idea, also the heat packs. I'll definitely give that a try. Like I said before, the exercise was not something I felt like doing. If I was in the woods I would have done it, but in the backyard I figured I'd just go inside if I had to.

It sounds like I just need more insulation under the feet/legs in those temps. I'll plan on adding more next time (see previous post). One thing I learned, though: I was comfortable at 21 degrees (1 degree lower than the predicted overnight low) with my setup. Too warm, in fact. That was nice to see, but I guess another lesson learned is to always over prepare in the winter...

[OldMan]

I've wondered about putting my bag inside a space blanket bag, but worried about getting the condensation wet. I would think it would work better with the bivvy inside the bag? Either way, let us know how it goes!

Well the forecast was for 18 degrees last night so I dressed a bit warmer and tried again. You and Doctari scared me away from putting my bag inside of the space bag. So I put my partially inflated BA pad inside of it instead and laid on it. I also attached a small stuff sack with clothes to where the ridgeline attaches to the foot of my WBBB where I could wedge it between my feet and the side of the hammock. Stayed pretty warm, almost too warm early on. Only got cold when I pulled a leg up and laid it against the hammock side, or rolled over and my bottom hit the side. Stuck the pillow I had brought out for under my legs between me and the cold and cured that. I was only half on the pad this morning, so not sure just how much help it was. Supposed to be just as cold tonight, so may adjust some more and try again.

[animalcontrol]

I have used a 3/8" GG CCF at 5*F under my legs and was fine...the walmart blue pad does not insulate as well, IMO
VBs are tricky and very person specific...at 25*F a cold sleeper might use a VB and be toasty while a warm sleeper, using the same set-up, will sweat and chill.
Insulation and moisture management are the goals here. IF (and I mean IF) I use any CCF pad or reflectix under my torso, it is smaller pieces under specific body parts (ie shoulders or butt). Again, I think this helps allow specific insulation increase while still allowing moisture to escape.
Finally, feet. I struggle here too. I subscribe to the thick, loose fitting wool socks. Make sure your feet are as warm and dry as possible when getting in bed (run in place, jumping jacks, take off your shoes and warm your feet next to a fire just before going to bed). Finally, I have used a piece of reflectix above my feet (inside the footbox). Do not surround your feet...fear the condensation, but the top and down the sides seemed to work for me without condensation (so far)...

[bonsaihiker]

agreed

My husband was taking the scouts out camping this weekend and I was "supposed" to stay home and watch the dogs. I was checking the weather at the last minute for them and when I saw that it was forcasted for LOTS of rain & wind for Friday night and then droping to below freezing for Sat. night, well I just had to find a sitter for the dogs and go too!!! Took me 20 minutes to pack up. Yep, I forgot a few things!! Had a fantastic time though.

Best thing I can suggest for cold feet is a pair of wooly clean socks that's just for night time (no wearing of these in your boots) and those chemical toe warmers. Plus if you've got a down vest or sweater, wrap your feet with it.

Don't know what to say about the sick feeling??? Were you only sick feeling while in the hammock? Or did you actually come down with a cold or sinus problem???

TinaLouise

You've got me beat. I'm glad you had a great time, but that weather would not have made me eager to go. Don't get me wrong, I'm not a whiner. I'll deal with whatever weather I get, and with my work schedule I have to go when I can, or not get out at all. But I have lots more fun when the weather's nice. I do like the foul weather for testing in the backyard, though.

As far as wrapping my feet, I did wrap my feet in the JRB down sleeves, but that was after they got cold. Good to find out at home that I need more than that. I was surprised that I didn't warm up more than I did. I agree about the spare socks, I usually do that when I'm hiking.

About the sick feeling, it was definitely not the bag/hammock or sinus. More likely Chinese take-out from a couple days prior....

[bonsaihiker]

Well the forecast was for 18 degrees last night so I dressed a bit warmer and tried again. You and Doctari scared me away from putting my bag inside of the space bag. So I put my partially inflated BA pad inside of it instead and laid on it. I also attached a small stuff sack with clothes to where the ridgeline attaches to the foot of my WBBB where I could wedge it between my feet and the side of the hammock. Stayed pretty warm, almost too warm early on. Only got cold when I pulled a leg up and laid it against the hammock side, or rolled over and my bottom hit the side. Stuck the pillow I had brought out for under my legs between me and the cold and cured that. I was only half on the pad this morning, so not sure just how much help it was. Supposed to be just as cold tonight, so may adjust some more and try again.

By the way, I mis-spoke in the post you quoted (it's fixed now). I meant to say "insulation" instead of "condensation."

Anyway, glad things worked out better for you. I wonder if by dressing warmer and adding clothes/pillow you were able to conserve heat better on top, thereby improving circulation and keeping your legs warmer during the night. It does sound like the pad may not have been needed if you woke up warm but not on the pad.... Sounds like you need to test again!

[bonsaihiker]

I have used a 3/8" GG CCF at 5*F under my legs and was fine...the walmart blue pad does not insulate as well, IMO
VBs are tricky and very person specific...at 25*F a cold sleeper might use a VB and be toasty while a warm sleeper, using the same set-up, will sweat and chill.
Insulation and moisture management are the goals here. IF (and I mean IF) I use any CCF pad or reflectix under my torso, it is smaller pieces under specific body parts (ie shoulders or butt). Again, I think this helps allow specific insulation increase while still allowing moisture to escape.
Finally, feet. I struggle here too. I subscribe to the thick, loose fitting wool socks. Make sure your feet are as warm and dry as possible when getting in bed (run in place, jumping jacks, take off your shoes and warm your feet next to a fire just before going to bed). Finally, I have used a piece of reflectix above my feet (inside the footbox). Do not surround your feet...fear the condensation, but the top and down the sides seemed to work for me without condensation (so far)...

Cool...great info, thanks. I had cold spots at my shoulders, and also my upper back after repositioning at times. I thought about adding insulation there, but wasn't uncomfortable enough to actually get out of my bag and do it. Adding specific insulation to cold areas as a matter of routine doesn't appeal to me--takes to much conscious effort when I'd rather be unconscious. Sleep is something I struggle with anyway, in the best of conditions. I do like the reflectix foot cover, though. May have to try that. Going to Lowe's today for wood stove parts anyway, may have to pick up a roll.

[iggy]

I like my windshield reflector. It is reflective mylar bonded to a closed-cell pad about 1/16 inch thick. It's comfortable, quiet, easy to use/place, wide, and adds just a little bit of warmth. I think next time I'll use that with my HH underpad, and maybe keep my army-issue CCF handy. When I started hammocking I added a blue pad cross-ways, held on by the tie straps, for shoulder coverage. That might work well to hold things together where I want them.

I too had to camp out in the backyard here in Kennesaw on Sat night, can't pass up a night going down to about 24 degrees. Good practice for the mountains! Anyways, I used my truck reflector and a 1/2 cut down single cell pad (just like the walmart one) to go sideways for shoulder protection, the reflector was long ways in my new Traveler in between the double layers.

I also took a small piece of lightweight nylon that I had from a previous project and made a mini hammock out of it and hung it under my hammock. I put in my rain jacket (mt Hardwear slik conduit) and then my down vest and cinch it up like a makeshift UQ.

I stayed warm all night! Oh yeah, my top was a Northface Cats meow 20 bag that I used like a quilt and I had my equinox poncho as a tarp for the wind, which was a little small for that. I went in the house around 6:30 am because someone left their dog out in the cold and it kept barking and barking and barking!

I got some condensation from the truck reflector, but not too bad. I was impressed with the make shift UQ. I didn't think it work that good. It's nice to know I could throw other items of clothing in there too.