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  1. #11
    Countrybois's Avatar
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    I don't think a normal person will get anywhere near freezing with a single layer of 2.2 Apex.... Doubled maybe......

    Need Adventure...Make Adventure


  2. #12
    MacEntyre's Avatar
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    My daughter and I have done it on a regular basis... I guess that reinforces your point, eh?

    I'm not saying that's a "rating" at all... freezing is a limit, in my view.
    Some will reach it in comfort, and some will not.

    Besides, no one has to figure out what will work for normal people, or abnormal people.
    You only have to figure out what will work for yourself.
    - MacEntyre
    "We must, indeed, all hang together or, most assuredly, we shall all hang separately." - Ben Franklin
    www.MollyMacGear.com

  3. #13
    Senior Member Tacblades's Avatar
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    I need a minimum of 5oz per sq yard to get to freezing, sometimes 7.5oz per sq yrd for apex
    ..........................................
    Tacblades

  4. #14
    SilvrSurfr's Avatar
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    Interesting that RBTR rates the Climashield APEX 2.5 at 50* F, yet 2.2 Climashield is listed here as capable of doing 32* F.

    2.5 oz - 50* F
    3.6 oz - 40* F
    5.0 oz - 30* F
    7.5 oz - 10* F

    http://ripstopbytheroll.com/products...x-2-5-oz-sq-yd

    Somebody's either a really warm sleeper, or really cold. Hard to tell!
    "A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds." Ralph Waldo Emerson

  5. #15
    Senior Member sunsetkayaker's Avatar
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    [QUOTE=MacEntyre;1609087]Pictures really don't convey the gossamer feel to the Momentum10 fabric.

    Momentum10 Baby Orca






    For a minute there I saw a whale tale on the right of this photo and thought you quilted a whale on your Orca. When I looked for the head, the picture came into focus and I realized it was just a black outside and white inside. I guess the whale quilt would have added extra weight, but the thought was cool.

  6. #16
    MacEntyre's Avatar
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    The variability between Temp Ratings and people's comfort levels is why lotsa folks are reluctant to do any ratings at all.

    I don't think it would be inappropriate to call Klipspringer (formerly Thing1) and me outliers, but we have used Baby Orcas and Top Blankets made with CS 2.2 to freezing many times. Of course, we weren't sleeping in our skivvies. I don't recommend it, but there are others who have told me they were comfortable in the low 40s with 'em.

    I would not limit CS Apex 2.2 to 50*F... that's silly!

    But it's not winter gear. When temps get to freezing on a regular basis, or stay there for most of the night, I switch to down!

    Whatever temp is your limit, your Shamu, Baby Orca and Top Blanket are going to be pretty light weight...
    Last edited by MacEntyre; 04-02-2016 at 20:26.
    - MacEntyre
    "We must, indeed, all hang together or, most assuredly, we shall all hang separately." - Ben Franklin
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  7. #17
    Senior Member TFC Rick's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SilvrSurfr View Post
    Interesting that RBTR rates the Climashield APEX 2.5 at 50* F, yet 2.2 Climashield is listed here as capable of doing 32* F.

    2.5 oz - 50* F
    3.6 oz - 40* F
    5.0 oz - 30* F
    7.5 oz - 10* F

    http://ripstopbytheroll.com/products...x-2-5-oz-sq-yd

    Somebody's either a really warm sleeper, or really cold. Hard to tell!
    This is what I was going off of as well. I was very chilly with a 3.6 in ~30 degrees. No way 2.5 would have got me there.
    Look up before you hook up!!
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  8. #18
    MacEntyre's Avatar
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    So, if'n ya know yer a cold sleeper, ask for our Custom MMG Climashield APEX (TM) 4.4...
    it has twice the amount of insulation as APEX 2.2, and
    according to that chart, it will get ya to 30*F...
    And it only costs a wee bit more!

    Since the coverings are so light now, there's not much weight added when you double the insulation.
    - MacEntyre
    "We must, indeed, all hang together or, most assuredly, we shall all hang separately." - Ben Franklin
    www.MollyMacGear.com

  9. #19
    Senior Member TZBrown's Avatar
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    Temp ratings are pretty subjective for most folks. What works for some may not work for all.

    In the case of a sleep system, no 2.2 probably would not be enough all by itself, and I think that is what the ratings are based on.
    With the outer cover and inner lining both of those trap air from moving also.
    I have used single layers down to 32 with other clothing, a hat, and jacket on and been pretty comfortable.

    Would I go out knowing the low was projected to be below or at 32 for the whole weekend, NO. But if it did hit that for a night or 2, I would not worry.

    It also makes quite a difference if you have been out for a week or so and adapted to the temps, much less insulation is needed after a time outdoors.

    These are so light though that in summer weather when you really are going light are worth a look for sure.

    I have a set of Hammock Gear 50 degree down quilts that I use in the summer, after 2 weeks on the trail it is no problem to push them to 35 or so, full frosty night, in New Hampshire, and a few others at elevation when I was on the AT.
    Life's A Journey
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    Woo Hoo!....What a Ride!

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  10. #20
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    I've used mine for several nights since getting it in the beginning of March. The first night out, it got down to 33*. I was wearing long John pants and a polyester hoodie. I was using both the shamu (full length under quilt) and the MMG top blanket. I did wake up a couple times feeling a bit of a chill, but an adjustment to the quilts put me back to sleep. To be perfectly honest, at that temperature, I would prefer a bit more insulation, but definitely wouldn't need double. And I could do it with just the Apex 2.2. The next couple nights were in the upper 40's. I slept those in t-shirt and gym shorts with no issue whatsoever.

    Based on what I've seen around here, as well as my own testing, I'd say I'm about average - not a warm sleeper but not a cold sleeper. And I'd say the MMG quilts are easily 40* gear. I would personally be willing to carry them exclusively down to freezing, as long as I have relatively warm sleeping clothes. I'm getting the ratings given for the material on other sites are based on that being the only available insulation.

    Just my .02. Can't beat the weight, packed size, or the price. I'm very happy with my Molly Mac Gear!

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