Qiviut for Under Quilt?

**Bladerunner** · 04-11-2016, 23:37

what I was thinking for the climashield one was not using quivit but the hollow guard hairs. I would have no doubts that quivit alone in a baffled shell would be incredibly warm and compactable but if you can find a use for what is basically a waste product from the mill it would be that much better(and cheaper). if that works well what you could end up doing instead of spending all the time sorting to just get the quivit just pull out the skirt hairs and use the quivit with the guard hairs on a synthetic base to keep everything in place and quilt for a little extra security.

**Dublinlin** · 04-13-2016, 23:08

Originally Posted by Bladerunner

what I was thinking for the climashield one was not using quivit but the hollow guard hairs. I would have no doubts that quivit alone in a baffled shell would be incredibly warm and compactable but if you can find a use for what is basically a waste product from the mill it would be that much better(and cheaper). if that works well what you could end up doing instead of spending all the time sorting to just get the quivit just pull out the skirt hairs and use the quivit with the guard hairs on a synthetic base to keep everything in place and quilt for a little extra security.

That's a good idea!

**beamarshall** · 10-27-2016, 22:26

stumbled late on this thread.. how did the UQ
project turn out? need to get rid of some leftover guard hairs?

**Dublinlin** · 10-27-2016, 23:22

Originally Posted by beamarshall

stumbled late on this thread.. how did the UQ
project turn out? need to get rid of some leftover guard hairs?

Project is on hold until Lisa (whose idea this was!) can come help with the sewing/brainstorming and brings the MILLED droppings (i.e. waste portion that has already been cleaned and has some qiviut mixed in with some guard hairs). As mentioned in one of the later posts, I was quite discouraged after conversing with an expert from the muskox research center in Alaska. What she told me contradicted what I thought the coat manufacturer in Great Britain was telling me in regards to the use of the guard hairs themselves for insulation. Quite possibly I simply misunderstood what he was explaining to me. At any rate I've stalled in the project, stymied as how to utilize the qiviut/guard hair mix in a manner that will be advantageous over down. If the finished quilt isn't LIGHTER than down and doesn't reloft as efficiently as down, there is no point in using it. To date, the only way it seems possible to secure the unwoven qiviut in place is by sandwiching it between thin layers of synthetic insulation, like Climashield. The thinnest Climashield I have found is 2.5 and I was unable to cleanly separate that into two thinner layers, so that means I'd be sandwiching the qiviut between two layers of 2.5...bringing it up to 5.0 which is really quite thick and is very insulative in and of itself...so why bother with the qiviut at that point? See what I mean? It just is impracticle if the only way to secure it is with the addition of synthetic insulation...at least the kind I have available to use.

Lisa moved back down to the lower 48 from Alaska last week, bringing the CLEANED milled droppings with her that she wants us to sew a quilt using. I'd long since given up trying to tease the qiviut by hand from the boxful of shaved musk ox coat she sent me last Spring...it was just too tedious and too dirty. Mostly, though, I was just too discouraged. I don't see how we can make it work for a quilt without it winding up bulkier than a down quilt...so what would be the point? Why use something incredibly more expensive if it is going to wind up heavier and bulkier than down? Qiviut may be a better insulator than down and lighter than down, but if you can't secure it in place without, in the process, making it heavier and bulkier than down, then it is futile.

My feeling right now is that loose qiviut is not useable for a quilt--which is what we have. Possibly if the qiviut was spun into lace weight yarn and woven into a micro-thin blanket, THAT could be made into a quilt that might well rival down, but it would be a shame to use a qiviut blanket in that manner. Using batting would have been one thing (but the mill couldn't make it into batting after all)...using hand-knitted woven fibers is quite another.

I don't know. Lisa has not given up on it. Maybe once she gets out this way to visit me, she will again infect me with the enthusiasm to see what we can do quilt-wise...but, for now, I'm loving my Wookie and giving my brain a rest from trying to puzzle out how to make the loose qiviut/guard hair mix work in such an application.

**Rynomcavoy** · 10-28-2016, 00:57

Originally Posted by Dublinlin

Project is on hold until Lisa (whose idea this was!) can come help with the sewing/brainstorming and brings the MILLED droppings (i.e. waste portion that has already been cleaned and has some qiviut mixed in with some guard hairs). As mentioned in one of the later posts, I was quite discouraged after conversing with an expert from the muskox research center in Alaska. What she told me contradicted what I thought the coat manufacturer in Great Britain was telling me in regards to the use of the guard hairs themselves for insulation. Quite possibly I simply misunderstood what he was explaining to me. At any rate I've stalled in the project, stymied as how to utilize the qiviut/guard hair mix in a manner that will be advantageous over down. If the finished quilt isn't LIGHTER than down and doesn't reloft as efficiently as down, there is no point in using it. To date, the only way it seems possible to secure the unwoven qiviut in place is by sandwiching it between thin layers of synthetic insulation, like Climashield. The thinnest Climashield I have found is 2.5 and I was unable to cleanly separate that into two thinner layers, so that means I'd be sandwiching the qiviut between two layers of 2.5...bringing it up to 5.0 which is really quite thick and is very insulative in and of itself...so why bother with the qiviut at that point? See what I mean? It just is impracticle if the only way to secure it is with the addition of synthetic insulation...at least the kind I have available to use.

Lisa moved back down to the lower 48 from Alaska last week, bringing the CLEANED milled droppings with her that she wants us to sew a quilt using. I'd long since given up trying to tease the qiviut by hand from the boxful of shaved musk ox coat she sent me last Spring...it was just too tedious and too dirty. Mostly, though, I was just too discouraged. I don't see how we can make it work for a quilt without it winding up bulkier than a down quilt...so what would be the point? Why use something incredibly more expensive if it is going to wind up heavier and bulkier than down? Qiviut may be a better insulator than down and lighter than down, but if you can't secure it in place without, in the process, making it heavier and bulkier than down, then it is futile.

Could you try to use insultex instead of climashield? I've heard success of people separating its outer fiber cover from the inner polyester batting.

**PotatoNavigator** · 10-28-2016, 05:13

If it does work there will still be a major problem for the rest of us; it's mega expensive!

Found a European supplier here:

http://arnica.dk/en/product/?cid=88&pid=153

70€ for 100g!

**KBr00ks** · 10-28-2016, 09:49

This stuff sounds amazing, and fascinating. Keep us posted!

**Dublinlin** · 10-28-2016, 10:45

Originally Posted by Rynomcavoy

Could you try to use insultex instead of climashield? I've heard success of people separating its outer fiber cover from the inner polyester batting.

That might just work! I hadn't heard of Insultex before your post here. Just googled it and followed quite a few links and it definitely looks like something that might just do the trick! THANKS!!! Now I'm getting excited again!

**Dublinlin** · 10-28-2016, 10:55

Originally Posted by PotatoNavigator

If it does work there will still be a major problem for the rest of us; it's mega expensive!

Found a European supplier here:

http://arnica.dk/en/product/?cid=88&pid=153

70€ for 100g!

Wow! That's crazy...so, that's what?...$2,128 US dollars per ounce? Surely my math is wrong...or the European supplier is asking top dollar. And his stuff isn't even spun into yarn yet!

{{EDIT: Oh, yeah! My math is HORRIFIC!!! That was 70 Euros per ONE HUNDRED GRAMS, not per ONE Gram!!! 100 gms equals about 3.527 ounces...70 Euro is about $76.53......so the European dealer is selling qiviut for about $21.70 per ounce. That's a bit less than $2,128!!!! Too bad! I was ready to tell Lisa she should just sell her qiviut and retire! Really, $21 or $22 an ounce isn't that outrageously expensive when you see how much is in an ounce. This stuff is light as air so it takes a lot to make an ounce.}}

The loose stuff he is selling is what Lisa and I are trying to figure out how to secure into a quilt. We have the pure qiviut, unspun and also we have the best droppings from the mill (high percentage of qiviut mixed in with some guard hairs). It's all loose fibers like those pictured on the European site you linked to.

**Just Bill** · 10-28-2016, 15:38

I'm confused...
You have a loose fill natural fiber? I see pictures of it held in people's hand but it's typically spun into yarn.

Guess the simple experiment is to measure it's fill power if you want to compare it to down.
Get a decent sized box, measure out 2 ounces, then shake it a bit (like you would fluff a quilt) and give it some time to settle.
then do the math to calculate fill power... (cubic inches per ounce) Do that and you have an idea how it actually compares to down on weight/loft.
If it compares well enough- I'd just sew up a basic shell or test quilt to try it out. You can always scrap the shell and re-use the fill.

If it is simply not lofting; it may be the wrong fiber structure which is why we spin hairs into yarn, but we don't spin feathers.

However if it truly has great insulating properties; you may want to look at it more like a synthetic... a .5" layer of Primaloft Gold is more like .75" of down... so loft isn't everything.

If it's super warm but doesn't seem to loft well or spread out well- then a test "pillow" would give you an idea. Make a small pillow and compare it to a similar one filled with down.

The other option for low loft fills is to use a sewn through quilt style. get a downproof fabric and spread an even layer of fiber on it then sew a 6x6 grid or similar right through everything.
http://www.westernmountaineering.com...ries/everlite/