I've done a search on the site and the google machine and can't seem to find what I am looking for... I want to fab up a quilt utilizing Primaloft Gold and not sure how much I should use... I want to be able to use this quilt down to the 20 degree range. How many layers do you think I need for this... Thanks!
I made quits with two layers and they said it would be good to about 35 degrees.
I find primaloft slightly warmer per gram than climashield, but not much, so you can probably just use the insulation tables for climashield
I did a UQ with 6oz of fill but 3/4 length and no collars and would say it to be around 30'F. I just ordered and have shipping some primaloft gold 6oz which I will use 12oz to make a topquilt. Guessing about 0-10'F. Will see two weekends from now when I go backpacking in middle WI.
That's a pretty tricky question...Originally Posted by bstylr29
You're supposed to quilt it 6" OC, so each quilt point reduces the insulation value some.
That's why most MYOG folks still prefer Apex- it needs quilting 24" OC but most of us just push it a bit and call it a day by sewing the perimeter or maybe one spot in the middle.
I personally think PL GOLD is far superior, but if you don't address the quilting issues it's usually more of a PITA for MYOG stuff than it's worth.
PLG is .92 CLO, Apex is .82 CLO... but if you just simply sew through quilt PLG then it's pretty well the same CLO value.
That said, it is softer and packs much smaller.
That said... If you don't beat PL up or launder it too often it will last you a season or two. Unquilted though eventually you'll have a quilt filled with "Puffball" technology.
WV pushes to 12" or so OC and that's pretty reasonable I think, I do a full 6" OC quilt with offset seams for MYOG stuff.
So all that said- not counting any quilting-
3 oz will get you to 45*
4 oz will get you to 37*
3+3 is 25*
3 +4 is 20*
4+4 is 15*
After that go with down.
If you're not as worried about the weight, stick with 4oz to be safe. For an extra ounce or so- you can also use RBTR's .5 oz no-seeum in the center and quilt the PL GOLD in an offset quilt pattern to that. Top piece start at 3"+SA from the edge, bottom piece 6"+SA from the edge. It's a bit of a pain, but doing it that way you won't have any quilting through the shell itself and you'll have a bombproof quilt.
If you want to save some weight- quilt the PL to the shells. Keep the scrim side up, and again stagger your starting stitch so the quilts are offset. When you are done- tear off the scrim layer- it's .5 oz yd and does nothing for you once you've sewn through it as it's just a glorified tissue paper.
Oh, those are TQ numbers BTW... seems you need another 10-15* (in any insulation) for an UQ. My opinion only...
On my UQ I used upholstery contact adhesive very lightely about every foot. I have had no problems with migration or seperation. I dont plan on doing any quilting on the TQ. Rather the adhesive every foot and around the edges.That's a pretty tricky question...
You're supposed to quilt it 6" OC, so each quilt point reduces the insulation value some.
That's why most MYOG folks still prefer Apex- it needs quilting 24" OC but most of us just push it a bit and call it a day by sewing the perimeter or maybe one spot in the middle.
I personally think PL GOLD is far superior, but if you don't address the quilting issues it's usually more of a PITA for MYOG stuff than it's worth.
PLG is .92 CLO, Apex is .82 CLO... but if you just simply sew through quilt PLG then it's pretty well the same CLO value.
That said, it is softer and packs much smaller.
That said... If you don't beat PL up or launder it too often it will last you a season or two. Unquilted though eventually you'll have a quilt filled with "Puffball" technology.
WV pushes to 12" or so OC and that's pretty reasonable I think, I do a full 6" OC quilt with offset seams for MYOG stuff.
So all that said- not counting any quilting-
3 oz will get you to 45*
4 oz will get you to 37*
3+3 is 25*
3 +4 is 20*
4+4 is 15*
After that go with down.
If you're not as worried about the weight, stick with 4oz to be safe. For an extra ounce or so- you can also use RBTR's .5 oz no-seeum in the center and quilt the PL GOLD in an offset quilt pattern to that. Top piece start at 3"+SA from the edge, bottom piece 6"+SA from the edge. It's a bit of a pain, but doing it that way you won't have any quilting through the shell itself and you'll have a bombproof quilt.
If you want to save some weight- quilt the PL to the shells. Keep the scrim side up, and again stagger your starting stitch so the quilts are offset. When you are done- tear off the scrim layer- it's .5 oz yd and does nothing for you once you've sewn through it as it's just a glorified tissue paper.
While this comes from Climbashield and is mildly biased... there's a good bit of truth to it.
Pasted from http://ripstopbytheroll.com/
How does Climashield perform versus other synthetic insulations?
Competitive insulation technologies are almost exclusively made from cut fibers, meaning the fiber strands are extremely short. This requires expensive quilting techniques and/or use of non-value added scrims in order to prevent clumping and separation. Moreover, laundering performance is poor, significantly impacting the thermal performance and shortening the life cycle of the final product. In comparison, Climashield products require minimal to no quilting contingent upon article design and can be laundered repeatedly with no deterioration in thermal performance.
Simply put- Apex is continuous filament insulation, PLG is short staple fill.
Apex is like a 1000 yard filament crumpled up into a batt
PLG is like 1000 1 yard filaments crumpled up into a batt
It's not impossible to work with, but it is worth sharing the limits of it too.
It performs alot more like down (soft, "instant on" feel, packable, etc), while it doesn't need true baffles like down, it does need more work than APEX.
Also for reference- again from Kyle's site- for Apex-
The ultimate temp rating of a quilt or apparel is subject to several variables, but as a rough guide, the following temperature ratings can be expected when using single-layers of Climashield® APEX insulation:
2.5 oz - 50o F
3.6 oz - 40o F
5.0 oz - 30o F
7.5 oz - 10o F
As Scotty mentioned, by the time you quilt it it's about the same values as Apex in terms of warmth only.
Tim at Enlightened Equipment uses a simple 2,4,6 scale, which is a hair conservative but still a good scale.
I personally find that all synthetic fills tend to perform less than would be expected as you approach 6-8 oz per yard. So I like the CS scale for above 30, but the EE scale below that. Much past 20 or 30* and you're better off with down from a weight and bulk perspective too.
2 oz= 50
4 oz= 40
6 oz= 30
8 oz= 20
I've heard of some of the sleeping pad guys doing that... the only thing I'd say is that if there is any failure they have built in baffles already.
It'd be neat to hear how your's holds up, especially in the wash... that's where things tend to go south.
But I do find the degradation issue a bit overblown- just worth being aware of. Not trying to scare anyone off it by any means... it's really nice stuff.
I have a Patagonia Nano-puff that I beat the crap out of, a season ago I tore the shoulder carrying some metal studs. I just left it alone and nothing dramatic has happened.
Thanks, Bill. I think you've compiled an "Insulation Sticky". I've bookmarked this thread along with other insulation sources and info. I believe the difference between Primaloft Gold and Primaloft Silver is that Silver has a mixture of long and short fibers, so it has some of the structural integrity of Climashield Apex. I use Apex and Silver both for my paneled underquilts. I'm looking forward to making a top quilt soon with Primaloft Gold, because I like the way it drapes. In some fashion or other it will zip to the hammock in place of the seasonal bugnet, turning the insulation into a pod. I'll certainly borrow some of the quilting techniques you described.
David
Posting Permissions
Reply With Quote
Bookmarks