permethrin on my setup?

[kllrbee]

Hey guys,
I haven't had too many problems with skeeters in the past cuz I usually only hang outdoors when it drops to about 50ish or below.
I wanted to start doing some warmer weather hangs tho. Hung last 2 nites and while I didn't get destroyed by skeeters, I did get bit.

I have Hammeck Netty, single layer, 1.6 argon, with a JRB Greylock 3 UQ.
I really don't want to add anymore material (CCF pad), or change hammocks as Im very happy with mine. So I decided that the permethrin route would be best for me. Couple questions tho...

Is this chemical ok to use on argon? I don't know why it wouldn't be...just want to make sure.
Honestly, Ive never heard of this stuff....just DEET or Off. So is permethrin the brand name? Or is it just the chemical used? I guess what Im asking is if someone could actually tell me what I need to buy....or post a link....haha.

Thnx all...

FWIW, I am also not a opposed to going with a full length UQ if you all think it would help. Ive been thinking of getting one anyways for this upcoming winter.

[raggydoo]

This is what your looking for, http://www.amazon.com/Sawyer-Product...rds=permethrin Don't use Off or deet, they can harm nylon.

[Trail Runner]

raggydoo has the link to the stuff you want above but I wanted to mention that if you have a cat you need to make sure you keep any treated items away the kitty until it dries. Once dried, treated material is safe for cats to be around.

[SilvrSurfr]

I use Martin's 10% - not as pricey as the Sawyer but you have to mix it yourself.

http://www.amazon.com/Martins-Permet...rds=permethrin

[kllrbee]

Thnx guys,
Im surprised I never noticed this stuff before. My local Dicks sporting goods has some...
Btw, no cat.

[silentorpheus]

Honestly, Ive never heard of this stuff....just DEET or Off. So is permethrin the brand name? Or is it just the chemical used? I guess what Im asking is if someone could actually tell me what I need to buy....or post a link....haha.

Permethrin is the chemical. It is a synthetically produced version of a pyrethrin (the insect repelling chemical found in chrysanthemums - which, incidentally, is why you can't let cats chew on them either).

The chemical is used in many brand name treatments, both for clothing (Sawyers is the only one SPECIFICALLY desginated as a clothing insect spray), livestock, bed bug treatment, and even the active ingredient in many head lice remedies.

Like any chemical, there are those that trust the research that shows that it is safe if used as directed, those that have done their own reserach and are willing to use it differently than the label states (like those, myself included, that use the more concentrated stuff that is very specifically NOT labelled as for use on human clothing), and those that think that any chemical is bad and that it can't be trusted. Plus everything in between.

Do some research, search for "Permethrin" on the forums and read all the various pros and cons that have been argued over the past couple of years, and then make a decision that you can live with at the end of the day. My personal recommendation: if you have any doubts at all, then stick to Sawyers. It's more expensive by a lot than the DIY route, but at least you can rest safe that they have years upon years upon years of testing and data that show you'll be fine. And just remember that all the cat/fish/whatever dangers are for when it is still wet, so keep your newly sprayed stuff away from animals and such. Once it dries, all is well ... except for bugs that is.

[kllrbee]

Went for a bike ride and passed the local walmart...
Got Sawyers there for 10 bucks. If it keeps the skeeters off me, its money well spent.
As far as the debating....I dont get into that stuff too much. If it works, im for it.
Thnx guys....test it out tonite.

[ManBehindThePlan]

Don't forget - you can use the concentrated stuff off-label, and save quite some $$$. For instance, http://smile.amazon.com/Permethrin-3.../dp/B0048EY6KY

I use about an ounce of this to a quart of water - last time I made a bath for all my camping gear and soaked them (use long gloves when doing this). No more bugs!

[silentorpheus]

Don't forget - you can use the concentrated stuff off-label, and save quite some $$$. For instance, http://smile.amazon.com/Permethrin-3.../dp/B0048EY6KY

I use about an ounce of this to a quart of water - last time I made a bath for all my camping gear and soaked them (use long gloves when doing this). No more bugs!

Just for conversation's sake, that's a LOT of permethrin. Manufacturer specs call for roughly 1.67 (1 and 2/3) oz of the 36.8% concentration, per gallon of water, to reach a .5% solution - thats the solution most commonly suggested for even "heavy infestations", the same concentration level of the Sawyer products, and the concentration that most people on the forum seem to use.

By using around an ounce per quart, that'll produce a solution roughly 3-4 times stronger (somewhere between 1-2%) than recommended or needed. I don't think it'll harm you, per se, but it's serious overkill, and the more chemical you use the more pronounced the odor. Plus the 36.8% SFR formulation does contain petroleum distillates, which again, while not overtly harmful, do produce a much stronger odor.

To be honest, I've found that a concentration of closer to .1% (what the 10% permethrin calls for in use against "normal infestation and control") is more than enough to be effective, and results in less smell on clothes. With the 10% concentration, that's only 1.33oz/gallon of water. Using the 36.8% concentration stuff, that'd call for merely .33oz per gallon.

YMMV

[TominMN]

I really don't understand the obsession with chemicals I see in the forum. Don't get me wrong: I think using permethrin in certain ways is a terrific idea. But, for me at least, I don't see the point in treating a whole bunch of gear with it. I say use it on your clothing, including bandanas, buffs, hats, whatever. The treating of hammocks and groundcloths and (I've even heard) suspension components seems like an unwarranted and useless exercise in slaughtering insects that are in no position to do you any harm. I feel the same way about sanitizers, with respect to overuse. I could say the same about DEET and other repellants.

There seems to be this mentality of "if it moves, kill it" with respect to bugs.

Sounds like the old Army unofficlal slogan of "If it doesn't move, paint it. If it moves, shoot it. If it's still moving, shoot it again."

Are people really truly afraid to go out in the woods these days? There's a thread here somewhere about folks watching a reality show called "Alone" (I think.) From what I've read (I've never seen the show, don't really watch TV), these guys are/were out there with bare minimum stuff and I'm guessing nobody died.

I question the appropriateness of some people's presence in the wilderness.

(Steeling myself for the hate mail...)

An afterthought: Folks go back and forth about mosquitos being able to bite through a single layer hammock body. I've had it happen. I've never had it happen with a double layer. Maybe SL hammocks could benefit from being treated. The assumption here is that there is no UQ or UQP in place...