permethrin on my setup?

[Trail Runner]

I really don't understand the obsession with chemicals I see in the forum.

I see no obsession with "chemicals" here but I'll play anyway. Why do people want to prevent themselves from being bitten by insects?

Lyme Disease
West Nile Virus
Rocky Mountain Spotted Fever
Dengue Fever
Malaria
Yellow Fever

And the list goes on and on.

[TominMN]

I get all that, I really do.

But packs, and suspension, and mats/groundcloths?

[Camping Nut]

I get all that, I really do.

But packs, and suspension, and mats/groundcloths?

Absolutely..... Unless you want to bring them home to your house, loved ones, pets, etc....

I had Lyme disease in 1980 (12 YOA) and, I was originally diagnosed with juvenile rheumatoid arthritis, which prolonged the disease and complications. I had been bitten behind my left knee by a deer tick after playing in the woods, and didn't notice until a few days later.... which, led to a rash about a week after the bite.

To this day, I have bouts of knee pain and occasional swelling.... I wouldn't wish it on anyone. So, do I spray my pack? YES..... do I spray my clothing? YES..... and anything else that may bring one of those little buggers (not the word I would usually use) home with me.

[silentorpheus]

I really don't understand the obsession with chemicals I see in the forum. Don't get me wrong: I think using permethrin in certain ways is a terrific idea. But, for me at least, I don't see the point in treating a whole bunch of gear with it. I say use it on your clothing, including bandanas, buffs, hats, whatever. The treating of hammocks and groundcloths and (I've even heard) suspension components seems like an unwarranted and useless exercise in slaughtering insects that are in no position to do you any harm. I feel the same way about sanitizers, with respect to overuse. I could say the same about DEET and other repellants.

There seems to be this mentality of "if it moves, kill it" with respect to bugs.

Sounds like the old Army unofficlal slogan of "If it doesn't move, paint it. If it moves, shoot it. If it's still moving, shoot it again."

Are people really truly afraid to go out in the woods these days? There's a thread here somewhere about folks watching a reality show called "Alone" (I think.) From what I've read (I've never seen the show, don't really watch TV), these guys are/were out there with bare minimum stuff and I'm guessing nobody died.

I question the appropriateness of some people's presence in the wilderness.

(Steeling myself for the hate mail...)

An afterthought: Folks go back and forth about mosquitos being able to bite through a single layer hammock body. I've had it happen. I've never had it happen with a double layer. Maybe SL hammocks could benefit from being treated. The assumption here is that there is no UQ or UQP in place...

I get all that, I really do.

But packs, and suspension, and mats/groundcloths?

I'll take a stab at this one. And I promise, no hate mail

I don't see that there's an obsession with chemicals, at least on this forum. If anything there's often a fairly vocal group against chemicals of any sort in these discussions. But like anything else, chemicals are tools, and they have a place and a use, as well as the ability to be used improperly or over used.

To jump out of order - I don't see the need to treat suspension lines, and agree that it's overkill. Especially if you're going to treat your bugnet. I don't know that I've seen anyone ever discuss treating their ground cloth - perhaps that's something that comes up on other non-hammock forums often. I can understand the idea that if you're using a shelter that consists of a ground sheet, a pad, a bag, and a tarp, then yeah I'd sure as heck treat the ground sheet. But I prefer to sleep bug free.

As for treating your pack, it's about access points, and what kind of bugs you're treating against. Your pack does a fair amount of whacking and rubbing against brush, branches, leaves, etc. It's a prime target for picking up ticks, which can then crawl from the pack to your neck, arms, etc. I wouldn't treat the pack with mosquitos in mind, for example, but with ticks in mind I don't find it to be out of the question or a case of overuse of chemicals.

I see no obsession with "chemicals" here but I'll play anyway. Why do people want to prevent themselves from being bitten by insects?

Lyme Disease
West Nile Virus
Rocky Mountain Spotted Fever
Dengue Fever
Malaria
Yellow Fever

And the list goes on and on.

This is the primary reason I don't feel being a little heavy handed with something like permethrin is a problem. You're dealing with a scenario of the evil you know versus the evil you might not ever know. We know that that there are some serious diseases that are carried by mosquitos and ticks, the likes of which can cause permanent lifelong issues or even death. If using liberal amounts of something like permethrin on my clothes and gear can offer a significant barrier between me and those diseases, and allow me to go out into the wilderness and come home safely with less worry, then I'm 100% for them. We're not talking about setting up camp and then spraying a perimeter with bug juice, mind you. But I'll take treating every piece of gear that offers an access point for the little buggers as a viable option any day.

The evil you don't know (often the opposing argument) is that we may not know whether these chemicals are ultimately good or bad for us, and that despite years of testing and research by the government, military, etc., etc., etc. - we can't trust any of that and we shouldn't put any chemicals on or near our bodies, and all that. But in my humble opinion, I've done my homework, read what I could, and I feel personally comfortable using these measures (that just might, possibly, someday cause me some issue, maybe) in order to try and protect against the certainty that if I get one of the tick borne ailments, I KNOW that those will cause me serious harm.

All of that being said, and to circle back to the OP, that's why I always suggest that everyone do their homework before using any permethrin, or choosing a particular brand or medium. Read about the risks and benefits, familiarize yourself with what it does and does not do, and what situations it actually helps with. Then make your decision to use it or not, and how extensively you'll use it, based on what you've learned and what you're willing or comfortable to accept. That way you know what you're getting into, and can live with your choice at the end of the night when you lay down in your treated (or untreated) hammock.

[TominMN]

I too have been treated for Lyme. Lucky enough to catch it before any nerve or joint damage each time. The Midwest is a hotbed for the stuff.

I have a bit of trouble losing sleep over Dengue, Yellow Fever, or Malaria in either the U.S. or Canada. And I believe most of the participation on this forum comes from those countries. And, I'll admit, that WNV and RMSF don't get Minnesotans too worked up but I'm sympathetic to the parts of the country where this is a significant risk.

And, yes, it has been stated on this forum that people are treating their mats.

I'm still having a problem figuring out how an insect on the outside of your bugnet it a problem...

[kllrbee]

OP here...
Well I used it on the bottom of my hammock only. Just where my UQ doesn't cover. It worked.
All this other stuff about disease and debating this and that....Im not going to get into.
For me its very simple, I was having a hard time sleeping cuz I was getting bit. I used something that put an end to that. Now I can sleep.
Done.

Thnx for the help.

[silentorpheus]

OP here...
Well I used it on the bottom of my hammock only. Just where my UQ doesn't cover. It worked.
All this other stuff about disease and debating this and that....Im not going to get into.
For me its very simple, I was having a hard time sleeping cuz I was getting bit. I used something that put an end to that. Now I can sleep.
Done.

Thnx for the help.

Well, there you have it then.

Glad you found the solution you were looking for.

[Big Sweets]

This still scares me as I'm very sensitive to chemical washes, detergents and softeners. I've broken out in hives from head to toe from name brand Bounce sheets. I did spray my diy fronkey net with Repel spray peremetherin because it was such a low percentage of active ingredients. I haven't used it yet though.

[cjayflo]

Skeeters love me and I get reactions from their bites. I started treating most of my gear after witnessing ticks crawling across my webbing straps.