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  1. #1
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    Question about Down

    Hello All,
    I am shopping around for an Under Quilt. And I have seen a number of web sites that offer both goose down (which I am familiar with) and Duck Down. I see the duck down is cheaper. But are there any other differences? Which is better for an under quilt Goose Down or Duck Down? I am trying to get a compairison, all things being the same, fill rate, coatings etc. Just the differences between the goose down and duck down.

    Any help would be greatly appreciated.

    Alaskan Hanger.

  2. #2
    Senior Member Tony c's Avatar
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    Loft, goose down is finer and lofts better. You see duck down at around 700 max and goose up to 900.


    It's just the different feather shape.

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    Senior Member Otter1's Avatar
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    The finest down comes from ducks: Eider down. Cost is WAAAAAAY out of reach for this ole boy!

    Fill power is fill power and both work equally well.

    Goose down is somehow sexier, hence the typical price differential. And like the above post says, the norm is for duck fp in the 700's so just like goose down of same fp, it takes more for a given loft than higher fp, so finished weight will be higher.

    As cost rose two years ago, Enlightened Equipment used duck down for a time to keep prices lower.

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    Senior Member chefkeith's Avatar
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    Question about Down

    Loco Libre is advertising their Hyper Dry Extreme duck down at 800fp.

    http://www.locolibregear.com/quilt-buyers-guide.html

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    Senior Member georgecarr's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tony c View Post
    Loft, goose down is finer and lofts better. You see duck down at around 700 max and goose up to 900.


    It's just the different feather shape.
    The down used in quilts is NOT the feathers, but the down under the feathers. It's much softer and lofts better. The highest rated down is duck down at I believe 1100 fill power, but as Funny Money said, it's crazy expensive. Duck down and goose down loft the same. The difference in price is the availability. Duck is more common and 800 fill power duck is pretty much a norm these days.

    Quote Originally Posted by Funny Money View Post

    Goose down is somehow sexier, hence the typical price differential.
    Right, like buying either an aluminum pot or a titanium pot; they both do the same thing but one has more "status" attached to it.


    Quote Originally Posted by chefkeith View Post
    Loco Libre is advertising their Hyper Dry Extreme duck down at 800fp.

    http://www.locolibregear.com/quilt-buyers-guide.html
    That is correct, we use 800 fill power Hyperdry white duck down at Loco Libre Gear. It looks exactly like goose down. I could sell you goose down, but I'd have to raise the prices due to a large difference in cost. FWI, keep an eye out for a series of quilts I'll have coming out soon featuring 900 fill power goose down.

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    Quote Originally Posted by georgecarr View Post
    The down used in quilts is NOT the feathers, but the down under the feathers. It's much softer and lofts better. The highest rated down is duck down at I believe 1100 fill power, but as Funny Money said, it's crazy expensive. Duck down and goose down loft the same. The difference in price is the availability. Duck is more common and 800 fill power duck is pretty much a norm these days.
    Down IS a feather, although a highly specialized one. With the exception of eiderdown, with the incredible fill power mentioned, I don't believe there is any other duck down that has the fill power of the best goose down. So, to say they are the same is not true. If by "lofting" you mean fill power, duck and goose down do not "loft the same." Undoubtedly there is goose down that has lower fill power than some duck down, but not on average.

    Some claim that eiderdown can have a fill power of 1200.

    Down fill power almost certainly varies by the species of bird it comes from and all birds produce down feathers. There simply isn't enough difference between most species of duck (other than the eiders) to make a difference. Same holds for most species of geese but, on average, goose down certainly has higher FP than duck down.

    Also, down standards allow for a certain small amount of body cover feather content/contaminant. The best down contains virtually no body cover feathers and hence has a higher FP.
    Last edited by TominMN; 09-04-2015 at 08:40.

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    Senior Member georgecarr's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TominMN View Post
    Down IS a feather, although a highly specialized one. With the exception of eiderdown, with the incredible fill power mentioned, I don't believe there is any other duck down that has the fill power of the best goose down. So, to say they are the same is not true. If by "lofting" you mean fill power, duck and goose down do not "loft the same." Undoubtedly there is goose down that has lower fill power than some duck down, but not on average.

    Some claim that eiderdown can have a fill power of 1200.

    Down fill power almost certainly varies by the species of bird it comes from and all birds produce down feathers. There simply isn't enough difference between most species of duck (other than the eiders) to make a difference. Same holds for most species of geese but, on average, goose down certainly has higher FP than duck down.

    Also, down standards allow for a certain small amount of body cover feather content/contaminant. The best down contains virtually no body cover feathers and hence has a higher FP.
    This is a direct quote from the Allied Feather website; "Down and feathers have two completely different structures. A down cluster has an identity all its own. It is not a young or small feather and will never develop into a feather. A down cluster has a quill point but no quill shaft, so it is far more resilient than a feather. Down is lighter and 3 Dimensional (unlike its 2 Dimensional counterpart) and has more loft, giving it the ability to trap air and heat and provide optimal insulation."

    As far as fill power of duck vs goose are you talking about what is available or lofting ability. 800 fill duck is the highest other than the "eider down", and that is why you don't see 850 or 900 duck. Goose is available up to 900 fp. But that does not mean they loft differently. Fill power is a measure of the loft or "fluffiness" of a down product that is loosely related to the insulating value of the down. The higher the fill power the more air an ounce of the down can trap, and thus the more insulating ability an ounce of the down will have. Fill power is better expressed as cubic inches per ounce.

    Regardless of "down standards" I allow NO feathers in my products, as the quills can make for issues I'd rather avoid with the lightweight fabrics we use. I'm pleased to say the down my supplier provides has contained no feathers as of yet.

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    Truly high quality down will virtually never contain semiplumes, bristles, or anything like a contour/cover feather. I think a lot of medium quality stuff often has semiplumes in it. Glad to hear you (and your supplier) stick to a high standard.

    You stated ""fill power is a measure of the loft." I guess I don't understand how you differentiate the terms, but I guess it doesn't really matter.

    What I do find incredible is that a supplier doesn't acknowledge that down IS a variety of feather, even though is has no quill shaft, barbules, or barbicels.

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    So, "all things equal", i.e., fill power, water resistant treatments, etc., there does not appear to be any substantial difference in duck vs goose down to the outdoor enthusiast, which I believe was the OP's original question. Ceteris non paribus, geese seem to produce down that achieves a higher fill power than duck down with the exception of the unobtanium down produced by the eider and there is an open issue of feather taxonomy.

    p.s. downlinens has 950fp goose down...
    Caminante, son tus huellas el camino y nada más... - Antonio Machado

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    Quote Originally Posted by Caminante View Post
    So, "all things equal", i.e., fill power, water resistant treatments, etc., there does not appear to be any substantial difference in duck vs goose down to the outdoor enthusiast, which I believe was the OP's original question.
    I think that's mostly true. Good duck down is going to get the job done for most folks. To get to the same "r-value", it will take a bit more of the down (weight-wise) with the smaller FP. That means the quilt is going to be a bit heavier and not compress to the same small size. Not huge differences but enough to matter to some.

    Quote Originally Posted by Caminante View Post
    Ceteris non paribus
    I love it when you talk dirty to us...
    Last edited by TominMN; 09-04-2015 at 15:09.

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