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  1. #21
    OlTrailDog's Avatar
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    Hammocktent 90*, Sparrow, WBBB XLC
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    90DegreeHammock_02.jpgI received my 90* hammock the day before Christmas. I have been sleeping in it for most nights since then. I have it set up in the dog trot where the temperature ranges from 35F to 40F.

    My other hammock is a WBRR that I can compare it with. So, I will start by throwing out random thoughts.

    1. I like the smaller foot print, i.e. ridgeline setup length, compared to setting up my WBRR
    2. I enjoy the head/toe swing. I fact I'm guilty of trying to get it to swing more as I lay there.
    3. It needs more storage space in addition to the two small mesh storage pockets.
    4. You can use the zippered head pocket access for more storage, but my pad is there.
    5. Setting it up is simple enough.
    6. I am fearful of sitting on the bug mesh as I get in and there needs to be a better way to protect the mesh. I just see a disaster coming in the middle of a dark and rainy night.
    7. Believe me, you can not turn around and lay with your head in the feet location.
    8. I am also very concerned about just how fast I can exit the hammock when I get hit with a case of leg cramps after a long hard hike. Something I contend with periodically.
    9. I like the WBRR ease of entrance and exit on either side and not being hemmed in by bug mesh.
    10. I spend most of my time sleeping on my side. The 90* excels at this and if far more comfortable than my WBRR. Much less shoulder and foot squeese. When you lay on your side the hammock shortens and widens to accomodate the side sleeper.
    11. A con about the side sleeping is if you do not have a pad to hold the 90* hammock ends out it will tend to shrink to the middle and be less comfortable. This is solved with a pad holding the hammock body open.
    12. The biggest con and almost a deal killer is the overall banana shape of the hammock. The head and foot arc slightly up. This is great on the head end because it holds the pillow and even may eliminate the need for a pillow. However, the curl on the foot end causes a little hyperextension of the knees if you lay for long periods on your back. This makes my knees uncomfortable. The way I, and the inventor, have dealt with this is to place a jacket or other soft bundle under the knees when laying for extended periods of time on you back. I never lay on my stomach.
    13. It is much lighter than the Exped Ergo or the Amok.
    14. I have spent every night assessing different pad configurations in preparation for a thru-hike. Following are a few of my conclusions thus far. First a pad is mandatory for the thru-hike for nights in mandatory shelters, hostels, or cowboy camping.
    15. The best pad I've used is my Exped Downmat UL 7.
    16. My Exped Downmat 7 LW works just as fine, but is heavier than I want to carry on a thru-hike.
    17. The coldest nights I suffered from CBS were with a Thermarest Solite.
    18. A night with a Sea to Summit Comfort lite mummy LW was CBS theater too.
    19. I have not tried my Exped Synmat 7 UL MW yet because it is still new in the bag. I suspect the R rating will result in CBS at the temperatures I am currently using it.
    20. Using my Arrowhead Ridgecreek from my WBRR would not conform to the outside of the hammock when I turned on my side and brought my feet up...equals...CBS.
    21. I folded my Costco down throw in two, added ties and shock cord that could be used to loop to the suspension cords. The same results as the Arrowhead when laying on you side. Just say no to CBS.
    22. Next I started experimenting with both the Arrowhead ridgecreek and the costco throw wrapped around a CCF. I put this inside the pad pocket and the CCF holds the UQ in place. Call this the UQ/CCF.
    23. Both the AH Ridgecreek and Costco throw work great, simply great when used as a UQ/CCF combination. This is as comforatble as the Exped Downmat 7 UL MW. Perhaps even more so as the hammock conforms more to my body as I lay on my side. I like this a lot.
    24. The UQ/Exped Synmat UL regular does not work. DO NOT use a regular width pad even with a UQ. Simply a poor night.
    25. A UQ/CCF with a Walmart Blue LW was a very comfortable night.
    26. Last night with a UQ/CCF a Evozote yellow 9.5 XL was superb. This is lighter and more compact than the Walmart Blue and may ultimately be the system I take on the thru-hike.
    27. Tonight I am testing the Sea to Summit Comfort light with the UQ at the head end. The S2S comfort light doesn't come in rectangular and the other S2S are too heavy. I have flipped the S2S around so the wide mummy end is at the feet. My head and sholders will be kept warm by the UQ and the foot end of the S2S...We will see.
    28. What I have planned in the future is to put a series of five small grommets in the pad pocket near the side top edge. I will thread shock cord attached to my UQ or Costco throw through these grommets and use a toggle to cinch the UQ snug to the pad pocket edge. This will work great, but I didn't want to modify the hammock while in the testing phase.
    29. i have an ebay down retangular bag that I am going to sew to reduce to 35" square that will work as a down UQ for both my WBRR and 90* hammock.
    30. I have purchase an Alcott pup tent for my border collie to use during inclement weather. She sleeps in it next to the hammock. I am thinking about replacing the arch poles with two short arrow shaft pieces to spread the top and are attached to the ridgeline near the suspension rings.
    31. If my grommet UQ system works well I will use a torso length Evozote pad or the S2S comfort light for the thru-hike regardless if I take the 90* or the WBRR.
    32. I will swap out the 90* suspension rings for some larger aluminum rap rings I have because they will be easier to adjust and remove.
    33. I might even end up using my WBRR suspension with Dutch Kevlar straps. Testing waits arrival of Dutch straps.
    34. I have a secret project for a CF tarp that i will let you know about in the future...if it works...teaser.
    35. If all systems fail due to too much space and weight I will KISS and use my CF hextent, polycro, and S2S comfort light. Hanging takes second place to succeeding.
    36. I forgot something, but i can't remember what it is?
    37. Oh, yeah, I remembered. I should have posted each comment in a separate post so that I can make 50 comments and achieve the seller's quota quicker

  2. #22
    OlTrailDog's Avatar
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    Hammocktent 90*, Sparrow, WBBB XLC
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    PS: if you use an Exped or S2S pad with the air valve in the middle either put it at the head end or turn it upside down. If not you just might unplug the valve with your feet in the middle of the night. Don't ask how I know.

  3. #23
    Senior Member WV's Avatar
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    Great info, OTD. I'll ask one question per post so you can increase your count with individual replies. Do you plan to sell off some of the pads you tested when you narrow down your choice?

  4. #24
    OlTrailDog's Avatar
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    Oct 2013
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    Hammocktent 90*, Sparrow, WBBB XLC
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    light & waterproof
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    Ongoing experiment
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    Ongoing experiment
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    Actually, I do plan on selling some of my extraneous test gear. I have the Downmat 7 LW set to hit ebay on Thursday. I like it a lot for both my WBRR and the 90*, but since I have a Downmat 7 UL MW the LW it is a redundant piece of kit. At this point I don't plan on parting with either the WBRR or 90* cuz I like them both a lot and each has advantages.

    I also plan on either putting the Thermarest Solite LW up on ebay as it is frankly too big for backpacking, or else cut it up into a shorter piece to use as the foot section and sit pad in conjunction with the Arrowhead Ridgecreek UQ.

    I was going to put my WBRR Cloud Burst tarp up yesterday until I was blocked because I didn't have 50 posts...more of a reader than a talker. I just ordered a HG Winter Palace, so the Cloud Burst will be redundant too. Besides, at the ridiculous prices for CF gear, something has to go to afford the goodies, eh? I suppose I should have broken this up into separate posts too.

    Lastly, I am still on the fence about trying the Exped Synmat 7 UL MW since it is still new and unused. I know it will make a great summer pad, lighter than the Sea to Summit Comfort Light, and is rectangular versus mummy shaped. Last night I tested out the S2S Comfort lIght mummy in conjunction with the Arrowhead Ridgecreek UQ. I turned the pad so that the narrower foot end was at my head with the UQ wrapped around the edges with shock cords. It was simply a great night for warmth and sleeping. And since my system must account for both hanging and going to ground, I would chose this over the UQ/CCF Evozote option because the S2S may be heavier, but they don't even compare for comfort in the hammock or on the ground.

    I know I've spent more bucks than I should on experimenting, but I really want to hang the thru-hike even though I know it will take more weight, space, and gear. Unfortunately, I simply can't stop by home once I am committed on the trail, nor do I plan on jettisoning gear in drop boxes. Therefore, now is the time to get the system tweaked for success.

    Decisions, decisions.

  5. #25
    Senior Member WV's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OlTrailDog View Post
    I suppose I should have broken this up into separate posts too.
    Yup.

    I'll get back to you on some of the other questions. I wonder about not using drop boxes to resupply and/or send gear home. Seasonal differences seem to make that necessary for most thruhikers.

  6. #26
    Senior Member WV's Avatar
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    About the banana shape you didn't like: I've made quite a few hammocks with multiple strings, including GE hammocks with strings on the ends, a true right-angle hammock with strings on the sides, and recently some bridge hammocks with the strings on the sides. All of these many strings have been adjustable with small whoopie slings built in. This can be done with any hollow braid line. I've used 120 lb test and 200 lb. test spectra fishing line and 200 lb test braided dacron kite line. The adjustability is the key to a comfortable sleeping position. Are the strings on your hammock such that you could shorten some on each side to lift the center of the hammock? Try using a small piece of 1/8" dowel through a slip knot on each line, and shorten half a dozen lines on each side. Go carefully, because you'll be exerting more force on the hammock fabric with the lines you shorten. Another way to go about it is to add hollow braid lines next to the lines you want to shorten. This is better than using dowel pegs because they invite line tangles. You could use the added string method with any line that will take a taut-line hitch for adjustment.

    Remember: only 1 reply to this. Or multiple replies in separate posts.

    More questions to come

  7. #27
    OlTrailDog's Avatar
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    Hammocktent 90*, Sparrow, WBBB XLC
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    I've have thought that since posting this that it really souldn't be classified as the classic hammock banana effect. It is more of a canoe effect, i.e. the upward tilt is more pronounced toward the head and toe end than a gentle arc the full length. I think it is a blessing at the head head, but troublesome at the foot end with potential for knee hyper-extension discomfort. I am blessed that I am predominantly a side sleeper, and consequently it isn't as much of an issue as if I slept the majority of the night on my back. When I do sleep, read, day dream, and etc on my back I have found that a bundle of clothes under my knees or under my thighs just above my knees alleviates the stress. All in all, the extra comfort of the 90* for side sleeping and being able to mitigate the knee stress has me currently ranking the overall comfort of this hammock over my WBRR. I am going to set my WBRR up in the garage tomorrow and swap hammocks to further assess the comparison.
    Last edited by OlTrailDog; 01-20-2016 at 17:59. Reason: nonsense statement corrected

  8. #28
    OlTrailDog's Avatar
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    Hammocktent 90*, Sparrow, WBBB XLC
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    Regarding your question WV about adjusting line lengths, I talked to Luke about this subject. The suspension is one continuous line and apparently there isn't a way of alleviating the final curl at the ends (the canoe effect). He spent considerable thought, time, and experimenting with this. In the end he said he uses the same method I came up with for alleviating knee stress if it became uncomfortable, i.e. he placed a jacket under his knees. I am aware that other hammock designs also have inherent "issues" that folks adapt to, and consequently, I have decided that the benefits of the 90* FOR ME, outweigh the comparative benefits/issues of other hammock designs. That is until the holy grail appears on the hammock horizon, eh?

  9. #29
    OlTrailDog's Avatar
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    Oct 2013
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    Hammocktent 90*, Sparrow, WBBB XLC
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    Hopefully I do not get sued for imitating a seamstress, but here is a report on my latest DIY project. I took an old down rectangular sleeping bag and cut/sewed it into a smaller rectangular UQ. I made it 34" so that it would work both with my 90* and my WBRR. As noted above this is being tested in the dogtrot where temperatures run 35F to 40F for the 90* and in the garage where it has run 25F to 35F for the WBRR. There is not enough room in the dogtrot for setting up the WBRR without derogatory observations from the wife who simply hasn't the same interest in scientific inquiry.

    Test results are in. I spent a superb night in the 90* by inserting the UQ into the pad pocket (PP). The UQ has enough down to provide rigidity to keep the UQ sufficiently wrapped around the PP when encapsulated in the PP. The problem with a regular UQ under the 90* is that you can get the UQ snug up to the hammock if attached completely underneath, but when you lie on your side the hammock shortens from head to foot and gaps are created resulting in onset of severe CBS. So I thought if I put the UQ in the PP the PP would keep the UQ snug as the 90* stretched and shrunk as you move from back to side positions. Note that if you use an inflatable pad in the 90* this stretch and shrink effect is negated by the rigidity of the pad. This is not true with CCF pads which bend and roll up on the ends.

    The UQ in the 90* PP worked so great that I thought I would try it in the WBRR, see pics. However, I could reach over and feel how squished the UQ was getting and knew it wasn't going to do well. The PP for the 90* is constructed in a way that it hold the pocket shape and doesn't squish down with weight on the upper layer like the WBRR does. So I suspended the DIY UQ under the WBRR in regular fashion.Although it looked good to go and was toasty warm on the bottom, there was enough gap along the edges that created air gaps and CBS. Mid-night I had to insert my Exped Downmat 7 UL to make it through the night. I need to work on a better way with auxiliary side attachments or shock cord along the edges to make the UQ work with the WBRR.

    My next mod was to add small grommets to the 90* PP that I could thread a short length of shock cord that was attached to the UQ. i added the grommets at the head, foot, and middle of the 90* PP, see pics. The idea was the shock cord would hold the DIY UQ and my DIY Costco UQ inside the PP snug to the sides and the full length of the PP. It worked great last night and I thought it worthy of reporting.

    General Observations:
    1) I have spent the last month in the hammocks testing various underlayment configurations. For both the 90* and WBRR the two best alternatives are an UQ or the Exped Downmat.

    2) A good compromise is the AHD ridgecreek wrapped around a wide Evazote 3/8 CCF or S2S Comfort Light inflatable pad (IP) that provide both for hammock or go-to-ground capabilities.

    3) There are two very different sleeping results or modes with the 90* depending on if you use a IP or a UQ. The IP keeps the 90* stretched out and is warm, but is more difficult to enter/leave with the IP poking up into the air (this could be problematic with the tarp deployed. The UQ in the 90* makes it easier to enter/leave, sit in, is warm, and won't poke the tarp. But when sleeping you need to be aware that the length will shrink/expand as you go from back to side and adjust accordingly (not difficult but takes getting use to).

    4) A special note on the WBRR and Downmat IP. If you position the IP so that it is a little short of the toe so that it can form a toe box with your feet hanging over the edge of the IP. This was accidental, but I found that with my feet over the edge in the "toe box" it was much more comfortable with substantial less toe squeeze. My feet were nestled in the sleeping bag and quite comfortable during the coldest night in the garage.

    5) Overall, IMHO the 90* is far more comfortable than the WBRR. There is substantial less squeeze as the 90* tends to conform to the sleeper. It takes less room to deploy and can make a good camp seat under the tarp. The weak point in both is the tendency for knee hyper-extension causing discomfort. Much less so than other hammock designs that you must lay diagonally and endure calf ridge. I deal with this limitation by placing a stuff sack with extra clothing under my knees or thighs to alleviate hyper-extension. By doing so i have even spent entire nights sleeping on my back in the 90*. I was surprised because I usually am a side sleeper, anywhere.

    6) The WBRR is so much easier to enter/leave. There is much to be said for simplicity of two suspension cords vs a web of suspension. Also with the fewer suspension elements it seems that I tend to be less concerned that I am going to bust something with the WBRR. The bug netting can be packed out of the way and out of mind, but with the 90* I always have to be careful of not sitting on the netting. There needs to be a better way to clip the 90* netting out of the way for safety (next mod?).

    7) My dog seems to really like the Alcott dog tent. She readily spends all night in the tent set up next to the hammock. Highly recommended for light weight and inexpensive.

    8) Tonight’s test with be attaching the AHD ridgecreek inside the 90* PP through the grommets and using a short CCF for the foot area.

    9) Access to the gear-for-sale forum should be based on number of words instead of number of posts ;-) Sold three tents on ebay this week!
    90degreeUQmod_01.jpg90degreeUQmod_03.jpgDYISleepingBagUQ_01.jpgDYISleepingBagUQ_03.jpg

  10. #30
    OlTrailDog's Avatar
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    Hammocktent 90*, Sparrow, WBBB XLC
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    I forgot the other 90* mod. I replaced the small suspension rings with some rappel rings left over from my climbing days. The larger rings make it easier for me to manipulate, especially undo, the tight suspension for dismantling. My Achilles heel is that my fingers do not do well in cold weather. I just couldn't envision undoing the small rings when the suspension was wet and cold with wet and cold fingers.

    I also had to make my very first continuous loop amsteel doohickies to accommodate the larger rings: thumbs up. I have seriously thought about replacing the small rings with the WBRR suspension continuous loop/pentazoid doohickies...we will see.

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