Knot for tree huggers...

[lesspayne]

Some say all hitches are knots too. But not all knots are hitches.

Confused now?

The same can be said for a few things... Spirits come to mind...all Bourbons are whiskey however not all whiskeys are Bourbons... the key here is that whiskey is a large generalized term that encompasses many spirits that are made with similar methods and ingredients however this whiskey may be made in a particular region with flavors specific to the region where it is made (Kentucky) which brings it down to a more specific term (a more specific type of whiskey) Bourbon (There are of course many other differences separate Bourbon from other whiskeys, region is just one example) ...In this case the MSH is a knot which is specifically classified as a hitch... the square knot is also a knot but not a hitch...Right sensei?

[Richard Tipton]

As previously mentioned, knots do degrade breaking strength and take up more webbing, but there are times when one does not have access to a sewing machine (or is not confident enough to use one) or does not have money to spend on cottage manufactured suspension or the time to wait for them to be delivered.

Correctly rated tow straps cut away from the hooks/buckles, melted at the ends to prevent fraying, and knotted to form a loop are a nice solution to the above issues. Inexpensive, no-sew, available at most big box stores or hardware stores immediately.

I used a pair for years when I started hammocking.

As an added bonus, if you cut away the ratchet/buckles on a tow strap, there's usually a loop already sewn in. I hung on a set of Harbor Freight straps for over two years and never had a problem. My point(that sounded really rude and harsh....my apologies) is that we tend to overthink the simple stuff. Yes, the MSH could be considered a knot and yes, it does derate the strap strength, but obviously not enough to worry me. As for a knotted loop, go for it! Whatever works for you, I choose to sew my loops because a knot looks cheesy and unprofessional. I know, image isn't everything, but I'm trying to win folks over to hammocks and everything I can do to make it look good, I'll do.

[Nodust]

Are ratchet straps really cheaper than straps available from one of the hammock vendors? Or is it just re-purposing what you already have?

[Richard Tipton]

Are ratchet straps really cheaper than straps available from one of the hammock vendors? Or is it just re-purposing what you already have?

maybe a little of both, but $3.00 for a set of 10' straps is a pretty good deal. Having said that, I buy webbing from Dutch 100' at a time. I think the webbing sold by our vendors is thicker, stronger, and performs better with cinch buckles.

[GreatBigDave]

... reverse evolution.

DEVOlution!

The same can be said for a few things... the square knot is also a knot but not a hitch...Right sensei?

The square knot is a bend.

[UncleMJM]

I would call it a slippery overhand knot.

This hair-splitting misses the point: the strength of the webbing is compromised by the MSH. Whether an end loop in the webbing degrades it to a greater or lesser degree, I cannot say.

Not intended to be hair-splitting. Granted, it veers off the topic of strength/degradation, but a real question. My real concern stimulated by this thread is not the strength of the webbing as much as "have I been using and teaching the wrong knot/hitch?"

[Richard Tipton]

Not intended to be hair-splitting. Granted, it veers off the topic of strength/degradation, but a real question. My real concern stimulated by this thread is not the strength of the webbing as much as "have I been using and teaching the wrong knot/hitch?"

Let's split a few more hairs....it's only a MSH when a toggle is used, otherwise it's a slippery overhand knot like oldgringo said.

[Nodust]

Not intended to be hair-splitting. Granted, it veers off the topic of strength/degradation, but a real question. My real concern stimulated by this thread is not the strength of the webbing as much as "have I been using and teaching the wrong knot/hitch?"

A water knot is the best knot for webbing as far as least amount of strength loss. You can make a loop using it. But I wouldn't be scared to use a figure 8 on a bight either.

A water knot is very easy to tie and can be untied after loading with a little work.

[UncleMJM]

Let's split a few more hairs....it's only a MSH when a toggle is used, otherwise it's a slippery overhand knot like oldgringo said.

As one with fewer hairs available for splitting as the years progress, I'm about to stop doing so. I've reviewed what I tie, and what Grog instructs for the MSH and am convinced that it is the same knot oldgringo calls a slippery overhand that I grew up calling a slip knot with a spike shoved in it.

The bottom line for me really is that it just doesn't matter. I've been hanging for years and never hit the ground as a result of a failure in what I tie as a MSH or failure from webbing that was degraded by the same.

[Loki]

A water knot is the best knot for webbing as far as least amount of strength loss. You can make a loop using it. But I wouldn't be scared to use a figure 8 on a bight either.

A water knot is very easy to tie and can be untied after loading with a little work.

You nailed it Nodust !