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  1. #11
    New Member Pewdiddy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2015
    Location
    Detroit
    Hammock
    10ft Dutch Nylon
    Tarp
    Warbonnet Superfly
    Insulation
    Incubator 20
    Suspension
    Cinch Buckles
    Posts
    36
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    2
    Quote Originally Posted by SilvrSurfr View Post
    Hammock & Bugnet

    I'd skip the Kammok stuff altogether. There's much better value on the market. Kammok doesn't have a great reputation for customer service, and their gear is heavy and overpriced.

    Roo hammock $99 24 oz.
    Dragonfly bugnet $75 10.5 oz

    That's $174 and 34.5 ounces for a simple gathered-end hammock with bugnet! The Kammok actually makes the ENO stuff look light and cheap (which is hard to do):

    ENO Singlenest Hammock $59.95 and 16 oz.
    ENO Guardian BugNet $59.95 and 16 oz.

    Total $120 and 36 oz.

    There's better value and lighter weight out there than Kammok and ENO, if you do some research. For $175, you could get a true high-end hammock with integrated bugnet and all manner of features, like the Warbonnet Blackbird or a Dream Hammock DangerBird.

    Or you could look at more affordable and lighter modular systems.

    Dutch 11 ft. PolyD 1.4 hammock $35 and 9.94 ounces
    Dutch Bugnet $50 and 7 oz.

    Total $85 and 16.94 ounces

    Buttinasling Hiker Lite hammock $35 and 9 oz.
    Buttinasling NanoBuginator bugnet $64.95 and 7 oz.

    Total $99.95 and 16 ounces.

    So do you really want a hammock & bugnet that costs up to 50% more and weighs 50% more than comparable cottage vendor products? And if so, why?

    Suspension

    I also think you can do better on the suspension. You don't need straps that long or whoopies that long. I don't think I've even seen someone with a Dutch Buckles and Dutch clips setup. Dutch Buckles are for whoopie sling users to replace the marlin spike hitch and toggle, while Dutch Clips are for people who use straps/webbing as a suspension. I prefer the Dutch whoopie hook suspension; it's pretty cool and easy to use.
    Thanks for taking the time to educate me on this. I was laughing when you asked. "And if so, why?" I don't want to spend more, I guess I just need to understand more of what's out there. Thanks for this.

    Also, I thought I saw a video where a hammock with a Whoopie sling coming from the hammock attached to a Dutch buckle that easily slid up and down the strap. But as I type this out, that just seems redundant. The buckle and the Whoopie would be adjustable. Why have both? Yeah your right. I see why your saying. I'm gonna research these a bit.
    Pewdiddy

    "It's not stupid until you try it."

  2. #12
    New Member Pewdiddy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2015
    Location
    Detroit
    Hammock
    10ft Dutch Nylon
    Tarp
    Warbonnet Superfly
    Insulation
    Incubator 20
    Suspension
    Cinch Buckles
    Posts
    36
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    2
    Quote Originally Posted by daneaustin3 View Post
    I looked at the kammok gear when I first was gathering info on gear. I almost ordered one until I realized I could have the same thing for $20 by diying it. If I had found Dutch's hammocks before I made my own I probably would have just ordered one of them. I'll put another vote on here for starting with a Dutch hammock.

    Thanks for letting me know. I really appreciate your words and your time. I'm definitely giving Kammok second thoughts. I assumed Kammok was to Apple as Hennessy/Warbonnet/ect are to Android.
    Pewdiddy

    "It's not stupid until you try it."

  3. #13
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    IN
    Hammock
    WBRR, Lots of DIY
    Tarp
    MacCat; Cloudburst
    Insulation
    Lynx, HG T/UQ, AHE
    Suspension
    Varies
    Posts
    8,464
    One small tip. Get a full 180' roll of Lash It. You'll use it, probably sooner than later.

    Redden Marine has a good price on it and free shipping for a short time....https://www.hammockforums.net/forum/...ash-It-Amsteel

  4. #14
    SilvrSurfr's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Location
    Jersey Shore, NJ
    Hammock
    Dutch PolyD
    Tarp
    HG Winter Palace
    Insulation
    HG 0, 20, 40
    Suspension
    Dutch Whoopie Hook
    Posts
    14,716
    Images
    3
    Quote Originally Posted by Pewdiddy View Post
    Thanks for letting me know. I really appreciate your words and your time. I'm definitely giving Kammok second thoughts. I assumed Kammok was to Apple as Hennessy/Warbonnet/ect are to Android.
    That's pretty funny. Kammok is actually not all that popular on HF - there are not a lot of threads started about their products because frankly, they're not marketing to hard-core hammockers who join a forum and actually research choices. Their market is the absolute noob who doesn't know any better.

    If cost, weight, and customer service don't matter, then Kammok is a fine choice.
    "A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds." Ralph Waldo Emerson

  5. #15
    Banned
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Location
    Rosenberg, TX
    Hammock
    DIY 12' Channel end
    Tarp
    HH Hex w/doors
    Insulation
    Underwoobie T/UQ
    Suspension
    RacerLoops w/Cinch
    Posts
    4,703
    Images
    8
    If you've already got the Roo, and are happy and comfortable in it, keep it. Don't solve a problem you've already solved.

    But the advice above on bug net alternatives is good.

    A Fronkey style bug net from Dutch is also good:

    http://dutchwaregear.com/fronkey-style-bugnet.html

    (and you would save money on shipping if you get it at the same time as the other Dutch stuff you're looking at)

    And so is the HUG bugnet from Arrowhead Equipment:

    http://www.arrowhead-equipment.com/s...f_Bug_Net.html

    Keep in mind, the most expensive and important piece of gear you ABSOLUTELY NEED is an Underquilt. Make getting an underquilt your primary goal.

    Not coming down on Dutchware at all, but you might want to forego a couple of the bells and whistles to keep cost down until after you get that Underquilt. Set your priorities on what will keep you comfortable and healthy, and go for convenience and efficiency after you've solved the "How do I keep warm?" and "How do I keep dry?" problems. And if you're new to backpacking, you might look at solving the "How do I eat?" problem, too.

    FWIW, the only essential piece of Dutchware I'd recommend for any noob is Dutch clips, everything else can be addressed with old school solutions like prusik knots until all essential problems are solved.

  6. #16
    New Member Pewdiddy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2015
    Location
    Detroit
    Hammock
    10ft Dutch Nylon
    Tarp
    Warbonnet Superfly
    Insulation
    Incubator 20
    Suspension
    Cinch Buckles
    Posts
    36
    Images
    2
    Quote Originally Posted by gmcttr View Post
    One small tip. Get a full 180' roll of Lash It. You'll use it, probably sooner than later.

    Redden Marine has a good price on it and free shipping for a short time....https://www.hammockforums.net/forum/...ash-It-Amsteel
    I've been looking at this. This is why I was thinking of just using grey lash it with my ridgeline and tie outs. I would like some Glowire but don't really see the point buying all kinds of different ropes.
    Also, the stpatty code doesn't work. I'll lookinto that a bit more.
    Pewdiddy

    "It's not stupid until you try it."

  7. #17
    Member Nickoli's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2013
    Location
    Colorado
    Hammock
    WBBB 1.7 Single Layer
    Tarp
    Superfly
    Insulation
    Winter Yeti
    Suspension
    Amsteel Whoopies
    Posts
    50
    Quote Originally Posted by Pewdiddy View Post
    Thanks for letting me know. I really appreciate your words and your time. I'm definitely giving Kammok second thoughts. I assumed Kammok was to Apple as Hennessy/Warbonnet/ect are to Android.
    Kammok is going to provide a product for the masses, they are pretty big box like ENO and Hennessy. I generally shy away from anything sold at REI these days, especially if even remotely considered about weight.

    Cottage companies like Warbonnet, Dutch, BIAS, Arrowhead Equipment, Jacks R Better, and countless others use true backpacking and camping experience and feedback to create their equipment. By campers for campers!

    IMO, Shop with the people that personally use, test, and develop their products/gear and you can't really go wrong. Then it's just a matter of deciding between all of the quality choices out there.
    Keep on keepin' on.

  8. #18
    Senior Member JacobAllison's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2015
    Location
    Yokosuka, Japan
    Hammock
    BIAS Weight Weenie
    Tarp
    JRB Hex
    Insulation
    JRB UQ, UGQ TQ
    Suspension
    Dutch Kevlar
    Posts
    119
    Take a look at the Hammock Comparison Chart as well. It's in the stickies. Looking at it, I see the following options for a side-zip ridgeline based bugnet, suitable for use on a gathered-end hammock with a ridgeline. (Dutch, BIAS, WB Traveller, etc)

    1. Warbonnet Outdoors Travel Net Weight: 7.5oz Materiel: NoSeeUm Entry: Zipper Style: Ridgeline Entry Location: Side $65.00 http://www.warbonnetoutdoors.com/bla...r-accessories/
    2. AntiGravityGear Vista Zip 7.1 201 NoSeeUm Zipper Ridgeline Side $74.95 http://antigravitygear.com/shop/shel...vista-bug-net/
    3. Wilderness Logics Bug Net 10.5 298 NoSeeUm Zipper Full Side $80.00 http://wildernesslogics.com/NOSEEUM-...UM-BUG-NET.htm

    There's a few other options on the list as well.

    I'm 5'11" and 150 pounds, and I currently have a hammock about the size of the kammocks... and I find it completely impossible to get really nice and comfortable in. I tried my buddy's 11' hammock and slept like a dream. Nothing wrong with the Kammok's but I'd rather support a USA manufactured & owned company by-campers and for-campers.

    Link to the chart: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets...it?usp=sharing

  9. #19
    New Member Pewdiddy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2015
    Location
    Detroit
    Hammock
    10ft Dutch Nylon
    Tarp
    Warbonnet Superfly
    Insulation
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    Cinch Buckles
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    36
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    2
    Quote Originally Posted by sargevining View Post
    If you've already got the Roo, and are happy and comfortable in it, keep it. Don't solve a problem you've already solved.

    But the advice above on bug net alternatives is good.

    A Fronkey style bug net from Dutch is also good:

    http://dutchwaregear.com/fronkey-style-bugnet.html

    (and you would save money on shipping if you get it at the same time as the other Dutch stuff you're looking at)

    And so is the HUG bugnet from Arrowhead Equipment:

    http://www.arrowhead-equipment.com/s...f_Bug_Net.html

    Keep in mind, the most expensive and important piece of gear you ABSOLUTELY NEED is an Underquilt. Make getting an underquilt your primary goal.

    Not coming down on Dutchware at all, but you might want to forego a couple of the bells and whistles to keep cost down until after you get that Underquilt. Set your priorities on what will keep you comfortable and healthy, and go for convenience and efficiency after you've solved the "How do I keep warm?" and "How do I keep dry?" problems. And if you're new to backpacking, you might look at solving the "How do I eat?" problem, too.

    FWIW, the only essential piece of Dutchware I'd recommend for any noob is Dutch clips, everything else can be addressed with old school solutions like prusik knots until all essential problems are solved.
    Thanks for this info. I like your perspective. Survival first, Comfort second. Must be something in that Rosenburg water. My good friends started a church there and they love it. Jimn Kyles atThe Church. BTW, I haven't bought the Roo. I was convinced this was mine because of the lunar wave feel and strength but not so certain now.

    Do you recommend any kind of UQ? I was looking at the UGQ Zeppelin full length.
    Pewdiddy

    "It's not stupid until you try it."

  10. #20
    SilvrSurfr's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Location
    Jersey Shore, NJ
    Hammock
    Dutch PolyD
    Tarp
    HG Winter Palace
    Insulation
    HG 0, 20, 40
    Suspension
    Dutch Whoopie Hook
    Posts
    14,716
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    3
    I'll agree with sargevining that the UQ should not be at the bottom of your priority list, but closer to the top. Tarp and insulation should be the bulk of your expense starting out. Hammocks and bugnets don't have to be expensive.

    I put off getting a proper UQ for two years and went with pads. The colder I camped, the more problems I had with condensation. My last night with pads was 22* F and I woke up drenched in pools of my own condensation. Some people don't experience condensation issues with pads, and maybe you're one of the lucky ones.
    "A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds." Ralph Waldo Emerson

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