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  1. #1
    New Member Paperjuice's Avatar
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    Mar 2015
    Location
    Montréal, Canada
    Hammock
    Hennessy Expedition Asym
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    Hennessy Asym Tarp
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    Blue foam pad + TQ
    Suspension
    H+Descender rings
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    19

    Arrow Light hanging system for backpacking, hiking & travel - Looking for a 2nd hammock !

    Hi fellow hangers!

    I've been reading posts on this forum for a very long time, but it's only recently that I decided to make the leap and officially join this dreamy community.

    I'm in the phase of looking for an upgraded replacement for my hammock, and need some advice from some experienced folks!

    It's probably going to be a long read, sorry about that; thanks if you get through it!
    If you only have five minutes, I figured a TL-DR section at the end of the post would be useful.

    Edit / I'm actually using this post to regroup all the stuff my head and browser tabs are full of these days. It makes it easier for me to track progress in the decision-making process, and will update it as my choices narrow (if they ever do).

    Italics and are links to stuff!


    BACKGROUND

    I got my first and only hammock in the summer of 2012, a Hennessy Exp Asym Classic, originally for a 21 days bicycle trip in Québec (Canada) with my girlfriend.
    We each had our hammock set separately, and we learned by experience the cold-butt syndrome that we were never able to avoid at that time.
    On a side note, I love hammock camping (for reasons that are useless to mention on such a forum) but I haven't yet found a good way to justify it as a couple, as it's actually not the best thing to, well, cuddle and have tender moments. I will actually probably cover that in another post to leave this one on-topic!

    Since then, I've hung now and then while backpacking in Ireland, France and Québec, and upgraded :
    - Insulation :
    . 3/4 blue foam pad (cheap, light, bulky) - worked pretty well so far, except for the sweaty back issue. Also tried a self-infl Thermarest once.
    . top quilt (Burrow 20 short/wide from Hammock Gear) - awesome quality, colors, weight, pack-ability.
    - Suspension : descender rings, which made the adjustment of the stock suspension much easier.
    - Rigging : Use the 30° rule to prevent the stock tarp to sag

    I have to say I have been pretty happy with the Hennessy system so far, but now I feel like I want something lighter, more modular,
    while keeping a certain ease of setup and handy features to stash/hang stuff.

    I currently live in Montreal, Canada, so the currency exchange rate is not really in my favor for US$ stuff. Luckily, I have the possibility to have the shipments made to a friend's US address.


    CONCERNS

    I plan on travelling and hiking a lot in the future, so I have a few criteria depending on this.
    Here are the main expectations I'd have of the new system :

    - Modular : Being able to use the hammock without bug netting, without RL, for easy carrying of a lounging hammock.
    - Nice coverage : A reasonably sized, light, versatile tarp that could be used to accommodate a cooking/hanging-out area, protect gear, could face harsh rain conditions, and maybe provide shelter for 2 hammocks. The HH stock Asym tarp is only very light (10oz).
    - Capacity : For funner moments, the ability to accept two lightweight people for lounging would be nice (size + max lb)
    - Lightweight : Ideally, not more than my current hammock+suspension (2lb 12oz, 1244g ), but some of the gear I might get could make it heavier (bigger tarp)
    - Go-ground : I would still like to sleep where there are no trees. I've got a groundcloth and a pad for these extremely sad days.
    - Somewhat bugnet friendly : I'll likely be to travel to bug countries (I actually already live in one), so having an efficient bugnet is crucial.
    - Somewhat budget friendly : I'd like to sell my HH, so not tripling its value would be awesome. Cuber fiber is probably out of the equation.


    GEAR

    Updated March 19

    At that point, here is what my research through the infinity of the internet led me to :

    Suspension
    97.3g / $39.95

    . Kevlar Tree Huggers : 5' / 39g / $13.20
    . DIY Whoopie slings from 7/64 Amsteel + Whoopie hooks : 2-6' adjustability / 41.5g + 6.8g / $5.25 + $16
    . Continuous amsteel loops if not already on the hammock : 0-5g / 0-5$
    . Removable (& adjustable?) RidgeLine from Zing-it (or Whoopie Sling or UCR) If no fixed RL in the hammock. Extra length would become guylines & driplines. Larks head on one end, carabiner on the other. ~100" / ~10g / $5.50

    Hammock & Bugnet

    That's a real debate in my mind right now.
    Integrated bugnet (++ease) or separate bugnet (--weight).
    Double layer or not (++weight ++price ++capacity ++padsleeve). I'm gently leaning towards it, cause I'd use a pad most of the time and would like the extra capacity for supporting two people.

    Integrated bugnet hammocks I'm considering:

    .Trail Liar 10'x64" / 12-14oz (1.1 SL) / 99.95$ (141$ with options below)
    _ Asym tie outs +5
    _ Double Layer +20
    _ 2 sides zipper +20
    _ 10ft -4

    . Grand Trunk Skeeter Beeter Pro 10'60" / 27oz (w stock suspension) / 90CAD(70$US) + 0$ ship.)
    _ Pros : Cheap ; Big ; 400lb max ; Flipable
    _ Cons : Heavy ; Needs Grizz's internal ridgeline mod for the bug net

    Classic hammocks I'm considering:

    . Grand Trunk Ultralight 9'x53" / 7oz / 22CAD(17$US) + 0$ ship
    _ As an extra hammock / Or GT Nano (86CAD)

    . Grand Trunk Double 10'5"x78" / 21oz (w stock suspension) / 55CAD(43$US) sale + 0$ ship.
    _ Pros : Big ; Cheap ; 400lb max
    _ Cons : Heavy, SL

    . Dutch Hammock NylonD DL - 10'x58" / 12.28oz / 300lb / 60$
    _ Pros : Cheap ; Lightweight ;
    _ Cons : Grey

    . Tree runner DL - 10'x64" / 14-15oz (1.1) ~16.5-17.5oz (1.3) / 250lb (1.1) ? (1.3) / 51.95$
    _ Pros : Cheap ; Wide ; 5$ tie-out opt.
    _ Cons : 250lb

    . BIAS Hiker Lite 11'x55" / 18oz / 350lb / 63$
    _ Pros : Cheap ; Included RL and CL ; Nice color options for DL
    _ Cons : Fixed RL (removable?) ; Poly ; Extra shipping cost

    . BIAS Weight Weenie 11'x62" / 8oz (SL) / 375lb / 90$
    _ Pros : Included RL and CL ; Lightweight ; Nice color options for DL
    _ Cons : Expensive ; Extra shipping cost


    Bugnet, if needed:

    . Dutch Fronkey Style Bugnet 10' / 6.5oz / 50$
    _ Pros : Lightweight ; not too expensive
    _ Cons : ?

    . Helium Cocoon bugnet 10' / 7oz / 35$
    _ Pros : Lightweight ; Inexpensive ;
    _ Cons : Easy to get in/out?

    Tarp

    I liked the ease of setup of the Hennessy's tarp, directly on the suspension, but I understand that it might not be the best thing to do for several reasons. Hence I'm leaning towards a continuous ridge line tarp suspension.

    . Choice of tarp not made yet, mostly focused my research on hammocks & suspension. Want it rather light and versatile. Thinking about a GT All-purpose, cheap & full of rigging possibilities, but it seems heavy. Maybe a MacCat standard ? Warbonnet Superfly, Mamajamba or Edge ?
    . Continuous ridge line from Zing-it, set up with the 2 carabiners technique, but maybe replacing those with Dutch Hooks and 2 Zing-it loops on the Tarp's pull outs.

    Insulation

    I don't plan on getting an UQ for now, I'll stick to my blue foam pad!
    Maybe I'll get a longer, self inflating pad someday. I think I like pads cause it allows me to go ground or share a tent easily.


    THAT WAS A BIT TOO LONG, MAN

    Wow, that was really a lot of . _ ↪ : ? ' $ " - /
    I tried my best to sort all this so that it's easier to read & skim through.

    Here are a few à-la-carte questions whose answers, added to your possible suggestions to what I wrote above, would help me a lot !

    a) What do you think of my lightweight-oriented suspension plan?
    b) What is your preference between an integrated and separate bugnet, and why?
    c) What do you think about double layered hammocks? Are the durability & sleeve worth the price & weight?
    d) What minimum size would you recommend to allow two <5'8" <150lb people to lounge quite comfortably?
    e) How much does Grand Trunk's stock suspension weight?
    f) Can Zing-it be spliced to make a whoopie/UCR for an adjustable hammock RL?
    g) Is the RL removable on the BIAS Hiker Lite?
    h) What is the weight of the BIAS Weight Weeny DL ?
    i) What is the weight and max load capacity of the Simple Light Tree Runner DL with 1.3 fabric ?



    I thank you so much for reading this 35627th post on the "looking for a hammock" theme!

    Peace
    Last edited by Paperjuice; 03-19-2015 at 12:22. Reason: Updating stuff

  2. #2
    Senior Member meckelangelo's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Location
    Pittsburgh, PA
    Hammock
    Hammeck Envy-S
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    HG
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    HG
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    762
    Hey Paperjuice, I can answer your question concerning the ridgeline on the Netty... It's required to maintain a consistent lay, and thus reduce any possibility of damaging the netting/zipper. It is removable/replaceable, but I would not suggest using the hammock without it. If you wanted to replace it with an adjustable ridgeline, you could certainly do that, but I would still advise caution. The bugnet is fitted specifically for the profile that is created by our default ridgeline length. Shortening the ridgeline won't do much harm, other than adding slack to the netting, but lengthening it could cause undue stress.

    I won't go into too much depth answering your other questions. However I will say, I prefer an integrated bugnet, myself. I'm not a fan of the sock style, as I find it difficult to cinch it shut at the end of the hammock. The Fronkey style is pretty decent, and our own Barrier Bugnet is similar (has a zipper entry, instead of shock cord). However, the draw back with these is that I always end up dragging my hammock on the ground setting it up the first time, since you have to put the hammock in the net before hanging. I'm probably doing something wrong, but there's not a perfectly easy way to do this.

    I also prefer a single layer, but I've been considering going DL for the additional insect protection. I use an UQ, so the sleeve is of little use to me. The weight is what has been holding me back. My full-length UQ keeps most of the bugs off my back, anyway, and I'm a cold sleeper, so I always use it.

    I put together a pretty decent description of the fabrics we carry, which might help you with question E. http://www.hammeck.com/fabric/

    Feel free to reach out to us at [email protected] with any specific questions about our products!

    Thanks,
    David
    Hammeck - Hammocks, stands, and accessories, made by the Meck family.

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  3. #3
    New Member Paperjuice's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2015
    Location
    Montréal, Canada
    Hammock
    Hennessy Expedition Asym
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    Hennessy Asym Tarp
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    Blue foam pad + TQ
    Suspension
    H+Descender rings
    Posts
    19
    Hi David!

    Thanks for your insights on this!

    I'm glad to learn that the Netty's ridgeline is removable. I wouldn't have planned to remove/lengthen it while using the bugnet anyway, but on the contrary to set it up in a lounge-mode, with no net and no RL. Would that be possible or still present a risk to damage the structure?

    I kind of agree on the advantages of the integrated vs separate bugnet. The main things refraining me are the price and/or weight and/or net setup of such hammocks.
    On this last point, I must say I really love the way the bugnet is set on your hammocks. The removable option looks awesome, and it's actually funny because a week ago - when I didn't know your products yet - I was hoping to find such a system, with a peripheral zipper allowing to remove it completely. But even with the attached-bugnet option, I love how you made it stash-able at one end of the hammock.

    I had seen your fabric list and it was really the only hammock-related place I could find such info, so thank you for that!
    By checking it again, I now understand that the 1.X refers to the weight per square yard, haha. On that note, you might want to correct the NylonD 1.0 section to "1 oz per sq. yard" !
    With an equal value of X, does NylonD always offer less stretch and more weight capacity than Argon?
    Is stretch a good or bad thing?
    Also, I believe the smaller the Denier value, the higher the risk of being easily bit by bugs through the fabric?

    Edit : found a lot of answers to these in that post.

    Darn, answers create even more questions, I'm doomed!

    I really like your website and how you present your products, with precise descriptions, numerous, clear and beautiful pictures! It is not common among hammock manufacturers, I hope more would do that. I'd suggest pics of fabrics instead of RGB color blocks, as they might be more realistic to the eye, but that's just my graphic designer side speaking haha.

    Thanks again David!
    Last edited by Paperjuice; 03-17-2015 at 00:00.

  4. #4
    Senior Member JacobAllison's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2015
    Location
    Yokosuka, Japan
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    BIAS Weight Weenie
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    JRB Hex
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    JRB UQ, UGQ TQ
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    Dutch Kevlar
    Posts
    119
    David certainly had one of the easiest sites to catalog for the hammock camper's equipment list I made up. =)

    I can't give you too many answers on 'what's best' but it looks like you're going for pretty much the same goal I'm going for.
    I went Dutch all the way on the tree to hammock suspension, with the kevlar tree strap and his whoopie sling/whoopie hook suspension. It got here today and it's just as awesome as I'd hoped.

    I went with BIAS because I had a chance to try one out, but went with the Weight Weenie. Load capacity isn't much of a concern for me, I weigh 160lbs dressed and soaking wet.

    Derek over at The Ultimate Hang has a good review of some of the BIAS bugnet: http://theultimatehang.com/2013/09/t...ug-net-review/
    But it looks like you've read that =) I decided to go for a seperate bugnet for now because I want the option to not have it.

    New spreadsheet in the stickies has every bit of hammock equipment I could find listed in it. Might be useful for putting together a list.

  5. #5
    Senior Member sandykayak's Avatar
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    Jul 2007
    Location
    Miami & Okeechobee, FL
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    Straps/DC-DDH susp
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    982
    Suggest you reconsider your decision to postpone getting an UQ. Amazing difference.

  6. #6
    Senior Member meckelangelo's Avatar
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    May 2011
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    Pittsburgh, PA
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    Quote Originally Posted by Paperjuice View Post
    Hi David!

    Thanks for your insights on this!

    I'm glad to learn that the Netty's ridgeline is removable. I wouldn't have planned to remove/lengthen it while using the bugnet anyway, but on the contrary to set it up in a lounge-mode, with no net and no RL. Would that be possible or still present a risk to damage the structure?

    I kind of agree on the advantages of the integrated vs separate bugnet. The main things refraining me are the price and/or weight and/or net setup of such hammocks.
    On this last point, I must say I really love the way the bugnet is set on your hammocks. The removable option looks awesome, and it's actually funny because a week ago - when I didn't know your products yet - I was hoping to find such a system, with a peripheral zipper allowing to remove it completely. But even with the attached-bugnet option, I love how you made it stash-able at one end of the hammock.

    I had seen your fabric list and it was really the only hammock-related place I could find such info, so thank you for that!
    By checking it again, I now understand that the 1.X refers to the weight per square yard, haha. On that note, you might want to correct the NylonD 1.0 section to "1 oz per sq. yard" !
    With an equal value of X, does NylonD always offer less stretch and more weight capacity than Argon?
    Is stretch a good or bad thing?
    Also, I believe the smaller the Denier value, the higher the risk of being easily bit by bugs through the fabric?

    Edit : found a lot of answers to these in that post.

    Darn, answers create even more questions, I'm doomed!

    I really like your website and how you present your products, with precise descriptions, numerous, clear and beautiful pictures! It is not common among hammock manufacturers, I hope more would do that. I'd suggest pics of fabrics instead of RGB color blocks, as they might be more realistic to the eye, but that's just my graphic designer side speaking haha.

    Thanks again David!
    No problem!

    You could set it up without the RL if you weren't using the net, yes. For the most part, though, I'm not sure of many scenarios where the ridgeline will impede any uses you're intending. If you want to use the hammock more like the chair, the ridgeline shouldn't interfere with that.

    Thank you for the compliments! Also, thanks for pointing out the mistake, I'm taking care of it right now!

    Did you get all the answers you needed concerning denier and fabric stretch?
    Hammeck - Hammocks, stands, and accessories, made by the Meck family.

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  7. #7
    Senior Member MDSH's Avatar
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    Aug 2012
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    Quote Originally Posted by sandykayak View Post
    Suggest you reconsider your decision to postpone getting an UQ. Amazing difference.
    True that!

    Tried both. UQ is far superior.
    Mike

    Learn to survive and thrive in any situation, for you never know what might happen. Love family and friends passionately. Suffer no fool. Know your purpose in life and follow it with all your heart.

  8. #8
    New Member Paperjuice's Avatar
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    Mar 2015
    Location
    Montréal, Canada
    Hammock
    Hennessy Expedition Asym
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    Blue foam pad + TQ
    Suspension
    H+Descender rings
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    19
    Quote Originally Posted by JacobAllison View Post
    New spreadsheet in the stickies has every bit of hammock equipment I could find listed in it. Might be useful for putting together a list.
    Wow, thank you for this awesome work Jacob! That's a real treat to be able to compare all this stuff in a glance. It's also a plague, as it gives me even more stuff to choose from, and I'm kind of a crazy hesitating person when it comes to gear and what would be best for me.
    Thanks for your report on your setup also!

    Quote Originally Posted by sandykayak View Post
    Suggest you reconsider your decision to postpone getting an UQ. Amazing difference.
    Yeah, I guess it would be the way to go, but I don't have the funds right now. But it'll eventually happen!

    Quote Originally Posted by meckelangelo View Post
    Did you get all the answers you needed concerning denier and fabric stretch?
    Yes, in the end there is a lot of info out here that I hadn't seen, like in this post and around!


    I now realize that my OP is far too long and hard to reply to as there are so many aspects to it, so I might just update it as my choices narrow and I get answers.
    Might also be worth asking specific questions on different posts, for clarity and ease of future-hangers research.

  9. #9
    Member brino's Avatar
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    Apr 2014
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    just my 2 cents ...

    Get a full length underquilt asap!
    Check out the Warbonnet BlackBird XLC ... it's a bit more roomy and has removable bugnet and top-cover!
    I myself have the regular version of the BlackBird ... I sincerely wish I had gotten the XLC.
    DreamHammock has some pretty similar models but I REALLY like the shelf in the BlackBird.
    As for the tarp, I heartily recommend any tarp with doors on the ends (Warbonnet Superfly)

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