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  1. #11
    Senior Member hutzelbein's Avatar
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    As others have said, $200-$300 is not a lot for a complete set-up. You are going to have to make compromises. And you have several options.

    I take it that you have not slept in a hammock, yet? While many people feel that hammocks are even more comfortable than their beds (and have become full-timers), hammocks are not for everyone. Some never manage to get comfortable. Since your trip is a car camping trip, I would suggest that you take your tent and pad in any case, so that you can bail out if you find you cannot sleep in a hammock.

    Would you consider a bridge hammock as well? If so, the Eureka Chrysalis might be just what you have been looking for. It should be just about long enough for you, it usually comes with the rainfly included (but you can buy a bug sock separately and use it with a tarp), and it's perfect for pad use. This means you would have no problem using it *comfortably* (in contrast to most gathered end hammocks) with your existing pad. Bridge hammocks also allow for a more traditional sleeping position, which might make the switch easier for a newbie. It would also be within your budget if you shop around a bit.

    There are two disadvantages: bridge hammocks are heavier, and the Chrysalis is not the lightest bridge hammock out there (but one of the most comfortable ones). But if you want to use it for hiking later on, you can always shed some weight by switching out the suspension and possibly replace the spreader bars with hiking poles (I haven't tried that, though, and don't know how well that works). The other disadvantage is, that the enclosed system is prone to condensation issues and you don't have the extra coverage to cook etc. But you can always ditch the rainfly later and use a tarp instead. For car camping it should not be a huge problem.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lipham View Post
    Right now, I'm looking at the Hammeck Netty, the Dangerbird 72, and the Kammok Roo.
    Of those hammocks I only own the DangerBird, but Hammeck hammocks seem to have a fairly similar build. The DangerBird comes with a top cover, though, while the Netty only has the bug net. The RoamingGnome is DH's net-only hammock, and the Hammeck Envy would be comparable to the DangerBird. Both companies make great hammocks and you have many (maybe too many for a newbie) choices.

    Personally, I would stay away from the Roo. I don't own one, but I think it is very expensive for what it is (a simple no-net hammock). Since you're on a budget, there are definitely better options. I think Dutch's simple hammocks have already been mentioned. With your preference for a semi-firm mattress I would go with NylonD. Get a double layer to be able to use a pad. Pads are not the best option in gathered end hammocks, but they get the job (of keeping you warm) done. As long as you're not 100% sure that you want to stick with hammocks, I would not shell out for an high-end underquilt. Dutch also sells a bug net. For hammock, suspension and bug net you would need to spend about $150. That leaves $50-$150 for a tarp.

    For $150 you can get a great silnylon tarp - the WB Superfly is a 4-season tarp with great coverage for pretty little weight. Many use it year round. The WB Edge is smaller, but would be perfectly fine for car camping if you don't expect week-long rainstorms, and it's a great summer or 3-season tarp. The WB Mamajamba is in the middle. If you don't plan on hanging in deep winter, it would be a perfect all-round tarp. Although I own the Superfly and the Edge, the Mamajamba is my most-used tarp.

    If you wanted to spend less, you could also go with a tarp like the Kelty Noah. You probably don't want to take it on extended hikes, but many people here use it for car camping or kayaking/canoeing. It's pretty cheap and offers a lot of protection.

    There are many more hammock and tarp makers, but I guess you already know that If you stay with hammocks, you'll likely start a collection anyway. There are very few people who only own one hammock... So don't sweat it and simply pick one that appeals to you. It's easy to sell high-quality gear here and try something else.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lipham View Post
    (what's the deal with whoopie straps vs. cinch buckles, etc.?)
    It seems that most people use whoopies, because they're lighter than a webbing suspension. However, I find webbing/cinch buckle suspensions more flexible (no problem with very narrow hangs) and easier to use. I started with the WB webbing suspension and switched to whoopies for a year or so, only to switch back to webbing. But it's a matter of taste.

  2. #12
    Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2014
    Location
    Oklahoma City, OK
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    Dutch 11ft NylonD
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    I'm new also, and got started for $330 ($230 before underquilt purchase). I spent a little more for a silnylon tarp that weighs less since I backpack. But for car camping like you will be doing, you can save money on the tarp.

    My newbie setup:

    Dutch NylonD Hammock - $35
    Dutch Whoopie Hook Suspension - $40
    Dutch Fronkey Style Bug Net - $45
    Used OES 4 Season Tarp - $110 (I suggest Kelty Noah 12 tarp for car camping like others have said - would be just $70)

    Total of $230. (Would've just been $190 with the Kelty Noah 12 tarp)

    I tried it out with my sleeping pad a few times to make sure I like it, then i went ahead and bought an underquilt.

    Arrowhead KAQ Jarbridge 3 season UQ - $100

    Total $330. ($290 if you get the Kelty Noah 12 tarp)

    EDIT: You may also need to factor in some miscellaneous expenses. For example, stakes and guy line for your tarp if you don't already own some.

  3. #13
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2014
    Location
    Fruit Heights, Utah
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    WBRR or 11' PolyD
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    You've received a lot of great advice so far. As others have mentioned, there is some personal preference involved with hammocks that can only be discovered through experience. If you have the option to stop by a group hang and check out some of the gear, even if you don't spend the night, that might help you gain a little experience. Most people at the group hangs are more than happy to show off their gear and it's a great way to see alot of different options in person.

    Personally I don't like an attached bugnet. I like the modularity of adding one on the trips that I need it and leaving it behind if I don't. If you plan on camping in a more bug infested area your views may differ from mine. I also prefer the simplicity of a gathered end hammock with no guy out points for bug nets, etc. Less for me and my dog to worry about tripping on/getting tangled in.

    As far as suspension goes, a cinch buckle system or even some ENO Atlas Straps or Kammock Python straps wiegh a bit more than whoopies but are tough to beat for simplicity and ease of use. I love my whoopie slings, but in situations where weight isn't an issue or my hands are going to be cold I still find myself using my Atlas straps. I'll probably end up making a system with kevlar cinch buckles now that Dutch has come out with that as an option. That would be a fast, simply solution that is still really lightweight, but it would also get to be a bit more expensive using the kevlar.

    With regards to firmness, I would stick with either a nylon hammock or possibly a polyD hammock, which has even less stretch than a nylon one. I prefer a stiffer feel and absolutely love my 11' PolyD hammock from Dutchwaregear.com.

    For a tarp, I love my Warbonnet Superfly but as others have mentioned, with weight not being an issue you can get by with a cheaper tarp. It is likely something you'll upgrade later but for now you can start with something cheap. I started with a regular blue tarp from walmart on my first couple of trips and it worked. It's heavy and a little noisy in the wind but it will provide protection for around $10 (plus tie outs, ridgeline, and stakes if you don't already have something to use). If you want to spend a little more I've heard the Kelty Noah's are decent for the price. They would be lighter than the cheapo blue tarps but still a lot heavier than a silnylon or cuben fiber tarp.

    I also agree that a KAQ from Arrowhead Equipment would be a solid choice for car camping and probably fits your budget. While underquilts take a little time to figure out, they have improved my comfort over a pad by a long shot.

    Whatever you end up deciding on, if you do your research and give it some time, you'll likely find it's much better than sleeping on the ground. I started with a hammock that was too short for me and still found it was way better than the ground. You'll dial in your preferences over time but just getting started with any system is a great experience. Good luck and let us know what you decide to go with!

  4. #14
    Senior Member
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    Apr 2014
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    One big money saver you can start with would be using a pad instead of an underquilt. I have a 1" pad with a segmented pad extender that I use and it keeps me toasty and isn't uncomfortable to me. Now if you buy a double layer 11' hammock you could slide your pad between the layers and might not need the SPE. Here's a picture of the SPE; you can probably find someone on the forums who either has one to sell or would make you one. Good luck with everything and I think you can stay within your budget.

  5. #15
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    Hey guys,

    thanks a bunch for the responses, I'm feeling the love hutzelbein, I am taking a tent with me as backup - I've never camped in a hammock before, but I had a "chair hammock" at my old apartment that I took many a nap in - love the feeling of hanging so I hope it translates to the camp!

    The Chrysalis hammock looks interesting, but would not be backpack friendly for future outings, I kinda wanna see how the regular hammocks work for me before checking out a bridge hammock - plus that one's at a pretty high price point. Good suggestion though and I'd love to try one at a group hang sometime.

    So I'm leaning towards getting a pad over an underquilt to save $$$. Kpi890, that SPE looks nuts! That's some high level stuff right there - I'm looking at the 1/4" Gossamer pad, the feedback on that seems to be pretty positive (thoughts?). The sleeping bag I just got has straps on it for holding a pad in place. If you guys were in my shoes, would you limit your search to a double layered hammock or does using those straps work alright? I'm one to toss and turn IN my bag, not WITH it, so I was thinking they might. I am keen on saving $ while I'm just starting to get into this, and I totally get it the "you won't have just one!" sentiment, so I'm looking more at Dutch's stuff but I don't see any double layer models available on the site (am I missing something?). Also are there any guy line/tie-out points on the PolyD? Do they affect the comfort of the lay, keep extra fabric from bunching up/smothering you?

    one more question, and maybe this should be a new thread, but have any of yall tried treating your hammock with permethrin for bug protection in not super-buggy areas? I use Sawyer's Permethrin on my clothes when I hike/camp and it keeps the bugs off pretty well - wondering if it's a viable alternative to a net in places that aren't straight up infested.

    Thanks again for the help!
    Last edited by Lipham; 03-04-2015 at 16:42.

  6. #16
    Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2014
    Location
    Oklahoma City, OK
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    Dutch 11ft NylonD
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    There is a double layer of the NylonD hammock, but not the PolyD or ArgonD. You have to click the drop down box to see the different single layer/double layer options.

    I don't believe that Dutch's hammocks come with any tie-out points. I personally haven't had an issue with extra fabric bunching up and needing tie outs to keep it off my face.

  7. #17
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2014
    Location
    Fruit Heights, Utah
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lipham View Post
    Hey guys,

    thanks a bunch for the responses, I'm feeling the love hutzelbein, I am taking a tent with me as backup - I've never camped in a hammock before, but I had a "chair hammock" at my old apartment that I took many a nap in - love the feeling of hanging so I hope it translates to the camp!

    So I'm leaning towards getting a pad over an underquilt to save $$$. The sleeping bag I just got has straps on it for holding a pad in place. If you guys were in my shoes, would you limit your search to a double layered hammock or does using those straps work alright? I'm one to toss and turn IN my bag, not WITH it, so I was thinking they might. I am keen on saving $ while I'm just starting to get into this, and I totally get it the "you won't have just one!" sentiment, so I'm looking more at Dutch's stuff but I don't see any double layer models available on the site (am I missing something?). Also are there any guy line/tie-out points on the PolyD? Do they affect the comfort of the lay, keep extra fabric from bunching up/smothering you?

    one more question, and maybe this should be a new thread, but have any of yall tried treating your hammock with permethrin for bug protection in not super-buggy areas? I use Sawyer's Permethrin on my clothes when I hike/camp and it keeps the bugs off pretty well - wondering if it's a viable alternative to a net in places that aren't straight up infested.

    Thanks again for the help, this humble hammock padawan appreciates your jedi master know-how
    If you want a Double Layer from Dutch you have to go with the NylonD, which both ups the price and the weight. With your specific sleeping bag w/pad straps you can probably get by with a single layer. As another option, some people put the pad inside the sleeping bag so it doesn't move around as much. If you find you like sleeping in a hammock, like most of us do, you'll likely end up getting an underquilt in the future but the pad is a good way to test it out. I started with a pad I already had to save money and found I like hanging, which led to the underquilt, etc.

    Dutch's hammocks do not have any tie out points. You typically only find tie out points on hammocks with integrated bug nets as a way to help keep the bug net off your face, etc. They do open up the hammock some and I've heard claims that the guy out points can enhance the comfort for some people but I've never personally tried one so i can't really comment on that. I personally prefer the simple gathered end hammock as it's one less guy line to worry about setting up and tripping over. I also like to swing in my hammock on occassion and tie out points don't work too well for that.

    As far as treating the hammock with permethrin goes, I highly recommend it but I don't know that it would fully replace a bug net. I guess that depends on how thick the bugs are in the area you are at but I generally use at least a HUG net with my permethrin treated hammock. The Fronkey style bug net Dutch sells is also a good option.

  8. #18
    Senior Member WaffleBox's Avatar
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    Salt Lake City, UT
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    I can't comment on whether the straps on your bag will help keep the pad in place sufficiently well. One issue I want to bring up with using a pad which wasn't mentioned previously in this thread, at least on my cursory reading, is that sleeping on pads results in condensation forming for most people. In other words, there is a pretty decent chance you will wake up with a wet sleeping bag/clothes. This is because pads are not breathable and form a vapor barrier.

    The tie outs that you see on hammocks like the Dangerbird are necessary to provide structure in hammocks with built in bug nets. They are not required or terribly helpful in hammocks without built in bug nets, like Dutch's.

    Lots of people (including myself) treat their hammocks and other gear with permethrin. It doesn't serve well in place of a bug net, however.

  9. #19
    Senior Member hutzelbein's Avatar
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    Germany
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    I love double layer hammocks for outdoors, although I use an underquilt. I tried sleeping in single layer hammocks made from 1.6oz fabrics or less and found them all too stretchy for my taste, with the exception of the 1.4oz PolyD. Since I still prefer nylon, this means that I would need a 1.9oz fabric or heavier. A 1.0oz double layer hammock is not much heavier and provides better support - plus I can use the layers to dry out humid or even wet clothes (the latter in moderation) and/or supplement my underquilt with e.g. my sit pad.

    A double layer definitely helps with keeping a pad in place, and I would recommend going that way if you think you will be using a pad for more than just a couple of times. However, if you find that you like stretch, you might prefer selling it later on, once you upgraded to an underquilt. It's impossible to make a prediction - you'll have to make a gut decision for now. I just wanted you to know, that a double layer hammock can have more uses than just keeping your primary insulation in place. It doesn't have to become obsolete once you start using an uq.

    If you go for a double layer hammock with some kind of bug protection and a usable suspension, you are looking at spending $150-$200. A Dutch hammock with Dutch bug net is a bit cheaper than e.g. a Hammeck Netty, but in this price region I would go for something that "feels" right. Don't just buy something you don't feel will suit you as much just to save $50. Rather buy what you think will suit you -- and if it turns out it doesn't, sell it here. As long as you buy quality, you'll not make a huge loss.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lipham View Post
    So I'm leaning towards getting a pad over an underquilt to save $$$. Kpi890, that SPE looks nuts! That's some high level stuff right there - I'm looking at the 1/4" Gossamer pad, the feedback on that seems to be pretty positive (thoughts?).
    Why not use a pad you already own? As long as it has some inbuilt insulation (not a pure air pad), it should work fine. At least for a couple of nights - which will hopefully be long enough for you to determine if you want to stick with hammocks and invest more money.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lipham View Post
    The sleeping bag I just got has straps on it for holding a pad in place. If you guys were in my shoes, would you limit your search to a double layered hammock or does using those straps work alright? I'm one to toss and turn IN my bag, not WITH it, so I was thinking they might.
    I'm not familiar with that kind of sleeping bag design. I would probably be worried to rip my bag; hammocks tend to hold on to stuff, so you might tug the sleeping bag one way and the hammock keeps the pad from moving with it. But that's just a guess. You could always put the pad inside your sleeping bag. I haven't tried that, but a couple of people have reported that it worked just fine for them.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lipham View Post
    Also are there any guy line/tie-out points on the PolyD? Do they affect the comfort of the lay, keep extra fabric from bunching up/smothering you?
    No, most if not all no-net hammocks have no tie-outs. You only need those to keep an integrated bug net out of your face. Personally, I have never been bothered by the "floppy" fabric that so many people complain about. I certainly have never been smothered by it, or had it bunch up under me. If you find that it's a problem for you, you could always add a Knotty mod (there are lots of threads here on how to do it) -- or you could go with an SLD Streamliner hammock (SL or DL). The design eliminates the floppy parts and provides better views - but it also makes the hammock less comfortable for sitting in with your legs over the edge. If you use it 99% of the time for sleeping or lying in it anyway it's a non-issue.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lipham View Post
    one more question, and maybe this should be a new thread, but have any of yall tried treating your hammock with permethrin for bug protection in not super-buggy areas? I use Sawyer's Permethrin on my clothes when I hike/camp and it keeps the bugs off pretty well - wondering if it's a viable alternative to a net in places that aren't straight up infested.
    Yes, many here are using Permethrin on their hammocks. It will only help you with bugs getting to you through the fabric, though - same as with your clothes. It won't keep the bugs from attacking you from above. You'll either need some kind of bug net, or some form of chemical protection. Just make sure that the latter doesn't melt your hammock fabric...

  10. #20
    SilvrSurfr's Avatar
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    I used a pad for two years, mostly because of severe sticker shock at the cost of underquilts. At first, I made myself a segmented pad extender (SPE), then got a double-layer hammock which manages the pad much better. However, I always had problems with condensation. The colder it got, the more condensation I got (my sons too). The last night I used a pad was a 22* F night, and I woke up drowning in pools of my own condensation.

    I also tried to go cheap on a decent tarp, which really cost me. I started with the stock Hennessy postage-stamp tarp (not enough coverage), then bought a Grand Trunk Funky Forest tarp (too heavy), got ripped off buying a $20 Guide Gear 12 x 12 tarp that leaked like a sieve, before finally getting a real tarp (HG Standard CF). I'd have been better off getting a proper tarp like the Superfly for $130, but I was just too cheap.

    For me, the underquilt was the game-changer, a quantum leap in comfort. I wish I hadn't been so cheap for so long.
    "A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds." Ralph Waldo Emerson

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