Hammock Newb questions?

[XedgeX]

Hello everyone
First off I'm sure I'm being lazy and my questions have been talked about in length somewhere on this site but I could not find them when I searched and lets face it. There's an overwhelming amount of good info on hammocking here!! I discovered HF 5 years ago, loved it, read it, bought a War Bonnet Blackbird and then sadly put it in my closet where it stayed until Sept of this year. Mostly because my life all kicked in at once, Wife, 1st child, new career, first house, 2nd child... I never even pulled the BB out of the stuff sac. About 8 months ago I saw the eno atlas straps on Amazon and thought they looked easier to use then the stock one's so I bought them as well. At random my brother in law came up from Florida for a week and said "hey lets camp and hike". So I did. First time pulling my BB out I had it hung and in use in 4 min and 23 seconds in my yard. I timed myself. So very user friendly. Now I had no tarp, no under quilt, and a cheesy 40 degree sleeping bag from Walmart. Before we left I picked up a 8x10 tarp from store and figured it would do. watched the weather which projected night time temps here in CT for our 3 day 2 night 46 mile through hike on the Nipmunk Trail was to be 45-48 degrees and the second day was showing 76% chance of rain. First night set up pretty quick, some trial and error with Walmart tarp but it served its purpose. I even enjoyed some hammock envy from my brother in laws! The tarp was a bit too short and I had to turn it diagonal. I got the BB XLC double layer. I'm 5'11 200lbs and like my elbow room. As for night time temp, I was cold. Not freezing, but not comfortable!! My 2 brother in laws had tents, ground pads and large bulky sleeping bags. I was up every 2 hours feeding fire. So now I have rekindled my camp and hammocking bug and am determined to make my next trip more pleasant. One of My brother in law's just picked up the clark jungle nx-150 because he liked the hammock concept for camping so much. I just bought the War Bonnet Super fly in digital camo and now I am researching under quilts. I'm also a bit OCD, I like clean lines, simplicity, and light weight stuff. Who doesn't right? First question.

1. what are everyone's thoughts about having a the under quilt nest into hammock interior rather than it attaching to exterior? Would it not serve same function?

I know I'm being petty but I feel like I have yet to see an under quilt that has clean lines and looks like it belongs with them hammock rather than something that is sloppy and looks retro fitted to it. Because of this I thought I would take a crack at a DIY under quilt. I have some thoughts I plan to try. In fact I just bought a sewing machine on amazon for black friday. There will be many learning curves here I'm sure!!! So I am approaching question # 2 very soon I promise. So before I consider under quilts I was looking at upgrading my sleeping bag. Im my search for a light weight compress-able sleeping bag I came across a new company still working on fine tuning their 1st product called "Deneb".

http://deneboutdoors.com/shop/

Their idea was to use Llama wool as insulation and they present their reasoning quite well on their site. Some more online research seems confirm their logic.

2. Has anyone ever considered making an under quilt with Llama wool as insulation / fill? Is this concept old news?

Any insight would be great thanks in advance
xedgex

[Trail Runner]

1. what are everyone's thoughts about having a the under quilt nest into hammock interior rather than it attaching to exterior? Would it not serve same function?

Assuming we're talking about a down underquilt then it would not serve the same function. Down is only an effective insulator when it is allowed to loft. Placing it in the hammock and then sleeping on it would be only slightly better than having no quilt.

2. Has anyone ever considered making an under quilt with Llama wool as insulation / fill? Is this concept old news?

I have no answer with regard to whether anyone has used Llama wool or not but it would likely be quite heavy and if placed inside the hammock it would lose at least some of its insulating properties.

[FLRider]

You'll want the underquilt on the outside of the hammock. Think of it as half of a sleeping bag; you want your bag to loft.

The llama wool might be as warm by weight as moderate fill power down. I wouldn't bet on it, though. There's a REASON that both major manufacturers of high quality sleeping gear and cottage vendors who do the same use high fill power down: it's the lightest and most compressible insulation on the market. Sure, it sucks when wet, but so does everything else (including wool and synthetics: if you're near the bottom range of your temp rating, there isn't a single insulation on the market that will keep you truly warm when it's wet; some just suck LESS than others).

Down really is the way to go unless you have personal misgivings about using animal products, you intend on being away from civilization for more than a month at a clip, or you plain can't afford it and need insulation RIGHT NOW. Otherwise, it's going to save you on weight, pack space, and money in the long term (due to synthetics' predilection for losing insulative value over the long run).

Hope it helps!

[XedgeX]

Thanks, the need for quilt to maintain loft to provide insulation makes sense. I did not think of that. As for the llama wool from what I have read the hair is hollow, very light weight and has great compression. perhaps at the end of the day I will have to whip a DIY underquilt out of llama wool and field test the heck out of it here is a comparison chart I found.


ADVANTAGES OVER WOOL
·
Machine washable, doesn’t shrink, no dry-cleaning
·
No harsh chemicals required for processing
·
Doesn’t pill
·
Causes fewer allergic reactions
·
Superior comfort range
·
Naturally softer hand
ADVANTAGES OVER SYNTHETICS
·
Naturally wicks body moisture
·
Naturally retains warmth when wet
·
Superior R Value (warmth/weight)
·
Won’t mat or pill
·
Flame resistant, doesn’t melt
·
Low static electricity
·
Naturally antimicrobial, doesn’t hold odors
·
Naturally silent, fabric doesn’t rustle  or chafe
·
Superior comfort range
ADVANTAGES OVER DOWN
·
No encasing shell required (creates noise and inhibits wicking)
·
Won’t compress, clump or mat with time
·
Sheds moisture, stays warm when wet
·
Less bulky
·
Machine washable, no dry-cleaning
·
Greater longevity
·
Superior comfort range

[FLRider]

I would challenge the greater longevity, less bulky, and stays warm when wet claims for certain. This sounds a LOT like the various claims made by pretty much every marketing department ever.

Thus far, I've yet to find anything lighter, more compressible, or longer lasting than high fill power down, when the bag/quilt is treated with reasonable care (in other words, protecting it from sharp objects, sparks, and dunking in water). I'd love to see some independent comparative testing associated with the llama wool and down, but unless and until I do, "If it ain't broke, don't fix it."

As always, YMMV.

[hutzelbein]

Well, you can always try to make your idea work. However, I agree with the others: nothing comes close to down. You won't find anything lighter, warmer and more compressible, although synthetics have improved over the years. No matter what you use, any insulation relies on trapping air and preventing air circulation. This means that you'll need a certain amount of loft. You would either have to hang your llama wool underquilt under your hammock (which will not look too much different from a down underquilt), or use a lot (!) of wool for lying on it. The latter option would neither be light nor compressible, though.

The way I see it, you have the following options:

1. Use a sleeping pad (either self-inflating or closed cell) in the hammock. This should take care of your need for "clean lines".
2. Maybe use an underquilt protector over your underquilt. Not sure if this, too, offends your sense of aesthetics. If it does, you could always make it bigger and hang it like a second hammock under your primary hammock. This way the underquilt would be concealed.
3. If you only go car camping, you could probably use anything in your hammock, like wool blankets, duvets, even down - you'll just have to stack a lot to get some decent insulation. I don't know how comfortable this would be, though.
4. Live with it and get used to the way the underquilt looks on your hammock. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder - and I think it's habituation as well. Maybe you get used to it.

[Scott8691]

It never hurts to try new things...I take that back, some of the new things I have tried hurt the wallet pretty bad. If you have the means, I say give it a try. Please post pictures of your creation and results of it compared to Down. Have fun!

[OregonBushcraft]

ENO has a 2-3 season UQ that will for your needs. It's $175 and has those clean lines you're talking about.

[jrbrtsn]

Hi XedgeX,
I have some llama wool and plan to use it to stuff the pockets on my nx-250. I'll post results once I give it a try. I have a beanie made of llama wool and it's extra warm however as others have noted, it is much heavier than down.