Haven't felt the magic

**Braden** · 07-08-2018, 11:33

I'm relatively new to hanging, bought a big HH and have made the adjustment after experiencing what you've described. I tried the homemade reflectix route, making several units, the grippy stuff does work well, but, what I found is that the HH pad, by design works waay better than homemade. It's shaped right, it's softer and has those hookups at both shoulder and foot. It doesn't scoot around. I may still make another for my other HH, but am glad I bought the designed unit because it does not slip and feels better underneath. My dogs have the benefit of having my homemades to lie on below me.

**Slackdaddy** · 07-08-2018, 11:42

Unless you are a youth or midget, the HH Expo is gonna not be comfortable.
My 2 HH Expo's are strictly for kids these days.
My 2 HH Explorers and jungle explorer are being retired after discovering the comfort of a "real" hammock.
Both me and my 16 YO son (5'-10" and 5'-9", 180# and 155#) where not getting a good nights sleep in the explorers, it was a recent thing for him once he shot up in height/weight. He could not sleep on his side (like he does at home) and was cough, snoring, hacking all night, I was never "settled" and chalked it up to being deep in the woods and "unsettled"
I bought him a WBBB XLC and he sleeps like a baby in that thing, no more snoring ar shifting around. I have laid in it and the difference from the explorer (which is bigger than your Expo) is amazing.
I have ordered a 11' long 70" wide Darian to replace my explorer.

So to sum it up, I have no doubt you are not comfy in an expo (assuming you are an average sized adult)

Slack

**J.young** · 07-08-2018, 12:05

I don't want to sleep on the ground anymore but will if I have too. keep tinkering with different hammock set ups and eventually the magic is there. on a side note, ever since I cracked some ribs a week and a half ago my bed just doesn't do it. even with extra firm memory foam mattress I can't get comfortable. so I'm sleeping like a baby in my indoors hammock for the foreseeable future.

**Dlrocm** · 07-08-2018, 14:03

Originally Posted by Brooklyn

Respectfully, everyone always recommending a 11 foot hammock no matter the users height needs to stop. 11 feet is not some magic number. It’s not a cure all for every issue one may encounter, it’s just longer. He stated that he’s 5’66”. An Expedition is absolutely long enough. Everyone is different and has their own personal preferences and quirks. Not everything can be solved by 11’ hammocks.

I'm speaking from personal experience here. I owned a Hennessy expedition, and I found it to be uncomfortable compared to other 11 foot hammocks. I'm only 5 feet 7 inches.

**dakotaross** · 07-08-2018, 15:07

Originally Posted by framjam

...I have not had the miraculous, life-changing experience that many mention upon discovering hammocks. Is it possible that I just don't hate sleeping on the ground as much as you? (In a hotel with a too-soft bed, I usually fold the comforter in thirds and sleep on the floor.)...

Hate to say it, but yeah, that's probably it. I mean most of us come from a place where at one point we've been camping in tents and we try a hammock, and for us, there is this "I'm never going back" moment which some might describe as miraculous and life-changing, but I'd just say its different and better - for a lot of us. I remember my mom had back issues and used to sleep on the floor with a pillow under her knees. When I was shopping for a mattress, the pitch was that the harder mattresses were better for your back. You might just be a person for whom that really works for you. I've always liked a hard mattress, and for a long time I enjoyed (thought I did anyway) sleeping on the ground in a tent, buts its nothing like the support I feel in a hammock. However, I find my body has memory from all the nights spent at home in my bed so that it needs to be satisfied and I'm want to turn over, etc., primarily out of habit I think. Its only on days 2-3+ that I feel like I'm getting the best of the hammock experience as that body habit diminishes. Wish I could sleep in one all the time at home (not hapnin' with the wife).

If you're not doing multiple nights, might try that. FWIW, I started in a Hennessy, but it was the longer Explorer. Used a pad with a SPE. I had a bit of a moment when I first started using it, but eventually had my bigger moment in a larger netless gathered end which is what I use now. I guess that's where you are now - do you decide to go back to a tent because you do like flat ground sleeping, or do you like the hammock enough to keep at it and find your nirvana? Of course, we all think the latter, but it does sound to me like you could be better off on the ground for now. Eventually, that takes a toll on a body and maybe at that point you'll try a hammock again and have that moment?

**cougarmeat** · 07-08-2018, 16:47

Couple of things - first, we are about the same height. My first hammock was a HH Expedition. I set it up and a tent too - just in case. I didn't sleep that well in the hammock the first night. But the next night, for some reason my body just walked passed the tent and it never looked back. Then I got a larger hammock (I think it was the HH Survivor). What a difference! It was like moving from a sports car to a station wagon. Now I have hammocks from most vendors mentioned here (I kept the HH for demonstrations, and to show its bottom entry was not that bad - no bugnet zippers) and they are all 10 to 11 ft and are great. To be fair, the HH wasn't bad and it was an economical start. But the longer hammocks were better (and again, being fair, more expensive).

Second, the pressure points are different in a hammock. Often, when people post about their concerns or "first time" experiences, they reference their bed. Weight is distributed differently in a hammock; your head is supported automatically so you don't need a pillow (except for maybe under a knee), you can sleep on your back, not so much tendency to toss/turn etc. Yes, everyone is different and has their own experience. The point is, it is different from a bed.

So, point three, you mentioned being out for four nights but it wasn't clear if they were for nights in a row or four separate nights with several days in-between. You need to passed that "first night". If it has been a while since I've used the hammock, it takes a night for my body to remember how to relax in the new environment. In fact, there are studies that show most people don't sleep well the first night in someplace new, regardless of hammock/bed/cot/pad. If I want to minimize the adjustment, the night before the trip I sleep in a hammock at home. So my first night out is a second night in a hammock.

Last, you mentioned using something to keep from slipping, and later, calve ridge problems (or that was someone else). Both those issues are solved in setup. Unlike your ground sleeping, in a hammock you want the foot end a little higher than your head (average is about 6 inches) Though "end high", somehow it works that when you move diagonal, things level out with no tendency to slid down. Calf Ridge issues are also usually solved by playing with the amount of sag.

That said, some hammocks are not as conducive to adjustment as others. If they have a fixed ridge line - usually with an attached bug net - it assumes a certain sag. And of course, with our cottage vendors here (but maybe not all larger commercial outfits), those settings are "middle of the curve" and work for most people. But you can always "build your own" by getting a plain hammock (10 to 11 ft) and spend an hour or two starting from extreme sag and move incrementally towards something like 80% of the physical hammock. In that range, you will find YOUR sweet spot. Then you attach a cord between the hammock ends (plenty of youtube videos on hammock ridge lines) so in the future you can duplicate that "best sag" position (note that the foot end still needs a little elevation).

It is such a pleasure to Walk up to the hammock bed and get in, just spin and put my feet on the ground and stand up to get out - instead of all this crawling around on the ground I did in the early years of camping.

One last note - even though you won't need the same "cleared flat ground" you needed with a tent, you may be surprised to discover how "fussy" a good hammock site is. You need trees the right diameter and distance. You don't want dead branches or heavy snow loads to drop on you. Ideally, you'd like the ground clear of brush (not necessarily level) around/under the hammock. You'll want the area perpendicular to the hammock to be open so you can stake out your tarp. It seems there is always that one tree in the way that spoils an otherwise perfect place. And you WILL want a tarp, even in good weather, because ... you are camping under tree branches. When I look at the bird deposits on my tarp (washed off after every trip of course - they are not collected like merit badges), I consider where such would be had I not used the tarp (note, it is not unusual to sleep on your back with your mouth open).

So if your "four nights" were not contiguous, you need to give the hammock a chance on a multi-day trip - even if it means bring a tent as backup.

**framjam** · 07-09-2018, 08:49

Thanks everyone!

Re. longer, wider, or bridge hammocks, and attending a group hang: a group hang is really the answer, as I just don't see sinking a bunch of money serially into seven hammocks, while I figure out which one is my perfect fit. Does anyone know of a group hang in Southern Ontario or Upstate New York, any time soon?

Re. the exhaustion of a long hike: yes, that'll help me sleep, but it would, no matter where.

Re. earplugs: always a necessity. I'm not (usually) creeped out by the Wild Things, but even the **** crickets and frogs kick up a racket to rival the freeway. In my back yard, I have to hide from the sounds of air conditioners, police sirens, and whatever ridiculous sporting event had half a dozen people shrieking, three doors down.

Re. hang angle: I had it at almost exactly 30°. Is there adjustment---one way or the other---that should be done to change comfort-level for different humans?

Re. high foot end: I actually found that putting my feet further up the foot end was good, as it left my shoulders and face in a wider and taller part of the head end. Am I actually supposed to hang the hammock asymmetrically between the trees?

Re. multiple nights: I did two nights in a row (Fri, Sat), two weekends in a row, as they conveniently provided me with the extremes of temp that I think I can expect for my August trip. Four weeks from right now, I'll be heading out on a four-night, five-day trip. I was hoping to get enough practice in both rigging and sleeping between now and then that it isn't weird. My backup "tent" is putting the hammock on a Tyvek sheet on the ground with the ridge line held off my face by my hiking poles.

Re. grippy stuff on pad: I didn't mean anything with adhesive. I meant the thin rubber funnel-cake-looking stuff that prevents my screwdrivers from running around in the toolbox drawer. I was thinking of using that across the back of an SPE, instead of (or in addition to) the strips of elastic. If no one else has tried it, I'll give it a go, and report back. I'm not willing to give up on my pad yet, as it's also my go-to-ground mattress.