Cuben Tarp Failure beyond repair

[Acer]

I love my 2 cuben tarps from HG that me and the wife use occasionally. Last year, I hung my 4 season cuben tarp made by HG (Adam/Jen) and had a failure of the material separating around the bonded area of one of the RL tie out areas in the middle of the tarp on the side. Adam repaired this making it stronger by larger bonded on both sides RL tie out and had worked great in all previous hangs.

Last week, I hung my tarp to enjoy a rain that was coming in that evening, and it was a very large storm. I had the RR hammock under the tarp,,the tarp hung like I normally would hang it, with the doors closed and after the storm, and all the humidity,,a heavy fog set in all nite soaking everything hanging,,so that ended the hang as I just didn't want to endure the heavy fog, leaving the hammock and tarp hung all nite in the storm mode with the doors closed. Next morning at 8am I went outside and re-hung the tarp sides in porch mode on both sides using my and the wife's set of hiking poles to allow hammock and tarp to dry out as everything was perfect and fine with tarp. At about 2pm,,outside temp was 86,,under the tarp temp in my portable thermometer was registering 100 and it was pure sunny as when I do hang in front of the house there is no shade what so ever,,just pure sunny and hot. Tarp material had separated on both RL tieout bonded areas. Not the bonding, or the sewed areas of the tarp by the makers,,,but the material itself. And it was all separated and stringy and beyond repair.

Adam called me today to inform me that the tarp was beyond repair. We had a nice 20 minute discussion on .51 cuben material.

As cuben tarp users,,we all know,,that .51 cuben material is the lightest material going and that is why we like our UL tarps made this way. However,,in my discussions with Adam,,I think we both have come to realize, that we, as cuben tarp hangers, have some limitations that we can hang these tarps in. Sunlight, and intense heat!

We as cuben tarp users also know,,that these tarps are not impervious to flying projectiles, as extreme hail, tree limbs falling, and tarp stakes flying into them and I had previously had rubbed a few small pin holes in the side of this tarp also getting in and out of a bridge hammock with the spreader bars rubbing the cuben vigiorusly.

Adam also informed me, that this wasn't his first time of seeing a cuben tarp that he had made from .51 uber light cuben material fail like mine. One of his customers, had left his cuben tarp out for a week or more in the middle of the summer in the heat and sun, and had the same failure similar to mine.

I now definitely know the limitations of .51 cuben material. How many other users out there on this forum have had similar experiences???

Will this stop me from using .51 cuben. No,,as I really like the material. I will just have to supplement in the hot summer with a silnylon tarp in direct sunlight and heat.

Should I go to .74 cuben material as its about the same costs,,but heavier? I should think the answer is no, for me, as its about the same finished weight as silnyon. Adam can get that material if users choose to have a tarp made from heavier material of which he thinks might be a lot more durable under these conditions of extreme heat..but nobody knows for sure.

I want to stress,,this failure was not a cause of the tarp maker as in no way or anywhere there has been stress or failure in the process of making the tarp. All bonded areas are like new and still in perfect working order. Its the material that delaminated, separated, and came apart. Sorry I didn't take a pic,,as I just didn't want to stress the damaged areas, and I packed and sent the tarp straight to Adam for him to look at.

Chime in,,if you have had any unexpected failures of cuben. I just wanted to post and point out my experiences with cuben material,,of which I love,,but will have to pay attention to how I use and baby it to make it work for me. I have another cuben tarp from HG on order as of now to replace this one.

[Shewie]

Not good, it's pretty rare we get those kind of temps over here so not too much for me to worry about just yet. There's also the fact that I'm either camping in woodland with tree cover or I'm just setting up for the night and then packing away the next morning.

There was always going to be concerns about the longevity of cuben in a camping application, laminated plastic and high temperatures don't mix well, tension exerted over long periods of time is going to give distortions too no doubt. So in a nutshell, a plastic cuben tarp does need looking after imho.

Sorry you had to find out the hard way, but it's lesson we can all benefit from

[Acer]

I really think we need to keep the cuben tarps at least, in the shade in hot weather !!!

[brambor]

Agreed. It goes the same for tents. Normally, an ultralight tent, should not be subjected to excess sunlight as the UV damage to the fabric will prematurely age your tent. If you have your shaded shaded from the tree canopy then it is ok. Otherwise, take down your tarp during the day or wrap it into snakeskins.

[Shewie]

Will you be able to hack off the damaged area and make a shorter tarp or is a complete right off?

What's next on the list, will you go cuben again?

[Acer]

Will you be able to hack off the damaged area and make a shorter tarp or is a complete right off?

What's next on the list, will you go cuben again?

This is the 2nd time for this tarp to experience this type of failure. Adam's opinion of which I value without question, said it was "damaged beyond repair". I could see, where the tie outs were, here and there,,that there were stress areas of material in the areas around the bonded tie outs etc. What does surprise me, is the little amount of time,,that I have actually hung this tarp in my front yard over the period of more than a year I have had it. Maybe no more than 6-8 days of total hanging in the summer in the open sun lit front yard, as I have a couple of other silnylon tarps I normally use for hanging in the front yard as well and don't use my cuben tarps except for backpacking, as past year,,haven't even had much time to car camp either. My other cuben tarp that I call the wife's, has never been hung in the sun and is like brand new and its a year or more old as well and is perfect with no abuse and will baby it as well as the next cuben tarp I get as will be receiving it when Adam has time to get it together.

I have a set of Zpacks Cuben Chaps,,that I wear with a poncho when its raining. I have worn them quite a bit, sitting in tree stands deer hunting,,sometimes when in the boat fishing, and constantly when hiking and backpacking that they always go with me as some "go to gear" that I constantly have with me. And funny now that I think of all the cuben material bags, and such that I have and use,,are holding up fine but mostly never ever in the sunlight or heat. And those cuben chaps have been used and abused a bit and are still totally water proof and don't leak.

[nothermark]

I wonder if you had a bad piece. It sounds like Adam should be talking to Cuben unless there are other failures reported. It happens.

I cannot help but to keep coming back to the source for the materials in Cuben and the uses they are marketing to. The outer space environment is hotter, colder, and has more UV than anything people will be voluntarily camping in. Now Cuben wants to be in the sport fabric business where this will be a problem for them if it keeps happening. As an old boss was fond of explaining - if we sell to the military and something fails we point to the spec and see if they exceeded it to decide who failed. If we sell to a civilian and do that he tells us where to put the spec and tells everybody else what junk we sell. Cuben needs to be told what happened and decide how they will handle a materials failure.

[Sailor]

Science is magic, but I'll bet Prof Griz could write the math on lightness v "lastingness." I started with canvas, went to heavy plastic, and now have sil and a HG cuban. Boy, do I like the ULW, but I just can't imagine the cuban stopping anything much more than water. UL sails have a short life compared to their heavier brethren, and the high energy coming from the sun...I just gotta believe there's nothing free...

[Acer]

[QUOTE=nothermark;1047180]I wonder if you had a bad piece. It sounds like Adam should be talking to Cuben unless there are other failures reported. It happens.

I personally,,don't think I had a bad piece of cuben. I am sure there are times, just like in anything that is made,,,that there is a defective piece in manufacturing process. In mine and Adam's phone discussion, he confirmed another person from down south way,,had hung his cuben tarp for a week or more in the hot sun 24/7 straight, and the cuben materials had separated. Its the way cuben is bonded and woven together as I understand how its made. We are using .51 cuben material. The lightest and least strongest of cuben material made, to make our tarps from for the lightening the load. There are other heavier, stronger, weights of cuben material out there to use. But HG and Zpacks are making what the masses are demanding and pushing the envelope in those of us that seek the lightening of the load! After all,,how many years, have we been using it? So from the use, and abuse, what all do we really know from it. I, personally, love the lightness of .51 cuben material. I like hearing the rain fall on it. I like being able to see thru it. I really like the fact,,that no rain will mist thru it like it happens to silnylon sometimes in a torrential downpour over time. You run a rag over it when its wet,, shake it off, and put in the pack and its just all but dry compared to packing up a wet tarp of silnylon sometimes. Lots of Pros on pushing for .51 cuben material usages. The cons are just as numerable and we are still seeing the cons pop up, so for its expense,,its a decision that the users must make in justifying whether .51 cuben material tarps and equipment is worth the payout and to a lot of hangers, they don't see the justification of spending the extra money for the Pro's of it and I can undstand that also.
I just think the material, can't take a lot of sun, or high temps as light as .51 cuben material is made of. Adam, and I are in thinking that the heat, and sun delaminated the weave of the .51 cuben material itself causing it to separate. But,,that is my opinion and looking for others to compare opinions also.

[Bannerstone]

I just had my HG 4S out for a week straight in daytime heat direct sun on the GOBA bike tour we were setting up each day before noon so it got the full heat of the days. It was so hot, I should have opted for something much less translucent but now you've got me thinking I should give it a good inspection before my Smokies trip next week.

David