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  1. #1
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    20 degree Michigan backyard hang

    It's been almost 2 months since I've got out for an overnight so last night I set up in my backyard for my first below freezing hang. I had a couple of goals: build confidence with my gear, test out a couple ideas for keeping warm and just have a nice night in the Michigan out of doors. Plus, I just got some whoopee slings that I was dying to use. Temps were in the 30's when I set up and dropped to about 19 as a low. Here's my gear: kelty noah 12, eno singe, REI 20 degree down bag, thermarest plus a cheap walmart pad. I don't have and underquilt yet (in the research stage), so I used a heavy duty spaceblanket hung underneath with a kelty 30 degre bag between that and the hammock. Clothing was 2 pairs of socks, long johns, fleece pullover and my new favorite: Polartec 200 army surplus overalls I picked up on Ebay for 10 bucks this week. I also had a nalgene of hot water that lasted until about 4 AM. I slept pretty good and woke a couple times for visit to nearest tree.

    A couple observations: I felt warm until about 4 AM when the CBS crept in. I did have condensation on the tarp, which was normal for the temp, put when I reached between the space blanket and sleeping bag, it was cold and the silver side was condensing and freezing, dampening the bag. I'm thinking that the space blanket was just making a barrier and keeping a cold sandwich below me, effectively robbing me of heat. I think I'll try it again tonight and skip the space blanket and hang that over my ridgeline to trap the heat and rig a sleeping bag below for extra warmth.

    All in all, it was great getting out and I'm feeling alot more confortable for some cold weather hanging! The forums have been a great source of info for a newbie

  2. #2
    Senior Member CB200T's Avatar
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    What part of michigan? I did my first ever hanf last night too in Ann Arbor. Down to 17 here.
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  3. #3
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    From what I've read here, anything waterproof under you will act as a VB, where the water will condense and collect. I've always have the bag get damp with pads, both with and w/o the space blanket, whether its 50 deg. or 17 deg. Its something I learn to live with, just hang the bag in the sun on a bush for a couple hours to dry out.

    I'm surprised you got cold with 2 pads though, I'm always toasty to the teens with 2. Do you think you slid off the pads? When I get cold, it's always because the pad shifted out from under me.

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by outdoorsguy View Post
    From what I've read here, anything waterproof under you will act as a VB, where the water will condense and collect. I've always have the bag get damp with pads, both with and w/o the space blanket, whether its 50 deg. or 17 deg. Its something I learn to live with, just hang the bag in the sun on a bush for a couple hours to dry out.

    I'm surprised you got cold with 2 pads though, I'm always toasty to the teens with 2. Do you think you slid off the pads? When I get cold, it's always because the pad shifted out from under me.
    I think I got cold from shifting to my side and compressing my bag to the cold silver side of the spaceblanket. The pad stayed put from the friction. Trying it again tonight

  5. #5
    Senior Member Vulture's Avatar
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    An underquilt should make a huge difference! If interested, join our Winter hang in a couple weeks at Ludington State Park.

  6. #6
    Senior Member BillyBob58's Avatar
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    Yep, most space blankets(SB) are also vapor barriers(VB). VB theory is:
    1: keep the VB on the warm side of the insulation, preferably right against or very close to the skin, with only the thinnest possible layer between you and the VB. And
    2: Don't keep any significant amount of insulation between you and a VB. If the VB is cold, vapor will condense on it and it will hold that condensation(water) inside your insulation, not good! Also, if you overheat and sweat, the sweat will be held inside the insulation also.

    Of course, any sweat ( from over heating) will also be held inside even if the VB is close to your skin, but at least it can't get into your pouter insulation layers. And if close to your skin, and thus warm, condensation is unlikely. Condensation happens on cold surfaces.

    Actually, I would think just those pads ( thermarest plus a cheap walmart pad) by themselves would have kept you warm enough at those temps. Were they stacked one on the other?

    Were you using the SB as an under shelf for the purpose of holding the Kelty bag up to your back as an UQ? If so, adding 1 more cheap WM space blanket ON TOP of the SB might serve as a VB to keep the moisture out of the bag, keep it from condensing.

    But if you already had two pads, that should have served as a VB right under you already. So I'm wondering how you got that condensation UNDER the pads in the 1st place? Hmmmm. Don't know.
    Last edited by BillyBob58; 12-23-2012 at 22:14.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by BillyBob58 View Post
    Yep, most space blankets(SB) are also vapor barriers(VB). VB theory is:
    1: keep the VB on the warm side of the insulation, preferably right against or very close to the skin, with only the thinnest possible layer between you and the VB. And
    2: Don't keep any significant amount of insulation between you and a VB. If the VB is cold, vapor will condense on it and it will hold that condensation(water) inside your insulation, not good! Also, if you overheat and sweat, the sweat will be held inside the insulation also.

    Of course, any sweat ( from over heating) will also be held inside even if the VB is close to your skin, but at least it can't get into your pouter insulation layers. And if close to your skin, and thus warm, condensation is unlikely. Condensation happens on cold surfaces.

    Actually, I would think just those pads ( thermarest plus a cheap walmart pad) by themselves would have kept you warm enough at those temps. Were they stacked one on the other?

    Were you using the SB as an under shelf for the purpose of holding the Kelty bag up to your back as an UQ? If so, adding 1 more cheap WM space blanket ON TOP of the SB might serve as a VB to keep the moisture out of the bag, keep it from condensing.

    But if you already had two pads, that should have served as a VB right under you already. So I'm wondering how you got that condensation UNDER the pads in the 1st place? Hmmmm. Don't know.
    Great info on the SB! Pads were stacked together and the SB (red side toward ground) was used to hold everything together and against the hammock. Temps were down to the low 20's and there was some snow on the ground, so it was wet. Condensation was only on the silver side of the blanket. Maybe the cold temps and snow were causing the condensation, because I can't imagine that I was losing that much warmth through 2 pads and a 20 degree down bag. I've used it the same setup in my tent before and stayed toasty!

    Update: just got in from my 2nd night out. Temps were low 20's, no wind and I slept 6 hours straight without waking up. I don't even do that in my own bed! Same setup as before, but had a warmer underarmour shirt on and macguyvered my kelty as a underquilt and no SB.

    A Merry Christmas to all and a Happy New Year!

  8. #8
    Senior Member Catavarie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by michigandave View Post
    I think I got cold from shifting to my side and compressing my bag to the cold silver side of the spaceblanket. The pad stayed put from the friction. Trying it again tonight
    I'm a bit confused by this statement. Were the pads in the hammock with you? Or underneath the hammock with the Kelty bag and being held up by the SB?
    *Heaven best have trees, because I plan to lounge for eternity.

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  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Catavarie View Post
    I'm a bit confused by this statement. Were the pads in the hammock with you? Or underneath the hammock with the Kelty bag and being held up by the SB?
    Pads were in the hammock and didn't slip around at all. Only thing suspended was Kelly and sb.

  10. #10
    Herder of Cats OutandBack's Avatar
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    One way to keep the SB dry is to put one pad inside the SB.
    This will act as a VB and keep the moisture above the bottom insulation.
    Use your second pad in the hammock like the first night.
    Don't think you'll need the space blanket or even the suspended bag under the hammock.

    If you do suspend the second sleeping bag under the hammock it must be up tight against you or it will basically do nothing but block a little wind.

    Best of luck and please take a couple picts of your setup.
    We all love backyard winter test site picts.




    hth

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