The trick with that one is getting insulation more on the feet than the thighs since feet are more apt to chill.Originally Posted by hangnout
The trick with that one is getting insulation more on the feet than the thighs since feet are more apt to chill.
I used my sleeping bags as a quilt well before I hammocked. The pads I used were the insulated ones down to 15°. I only wear a base layer, socks and a hat when I sleep.
'Classic.' A book which people praise and don't read.” ― Mark Twain
Who cares about showers, gourmet food, using flush toilets. Just keep on walking and being away from it all.
There are times that the only way you can do something is to do it alone.
Wisenber---did you ever act on this combo?
I didnt look to see how old this thread is but I did use something similar on the AT in Pennsylvania....a WM Flash and the Nunatac ArcAT but that was for lows in the upper 40s to 50s.
If I was going to do this type of combo again I'd probably use an anorak versus a parka to get rid of the hole errr I mean zipper...something like the Shaka Plus.
Well disregard the thought process here if this is an ancient topic.
I've put quite a bit of thought into this, but haven't jumped at an elephant's foot yet. The issue I kept coming back to is that for 0F weather we usually get a 3" baffled quilt and UQ...but try finding a jacket that's baffled to 3". Most of the thickest jackets are baffled to 1.5" for deep winter...and that's good enough if you're lugging a heavy pack up a mountain, or sitting up long enough to boil some water before going to bed. That's probably not thick enough if you're trying to sleep in 0F weather.
Where I think this might excel is in the shoulder seasons, where I usually don't bring a jacket and rely on the No Sniveler or Stealth if I unexpectedly need one. By using a thin elephant's foot, I could have an actual jacket for camp and sleep in it. I still haven't really found a good medium for that yet, though.
What I've done in the past is bring a jacket and the Stealth instead of the No Sniveler...a little bit of flexibility, but still a weight penalty.
So...based on my experience so far, I think the best application of a jacket is to bring a normal puffy and a thinner full-length quilt. There's going to be a weight penalty over just using a thicker quilt, but you get the convenience of wearing an actual jacket around camp instead of wrapping up in your quilt. AND...it still weighs less than a jacket plus a thicker quilt, if only slightly.
Still looking at options, though, mainly b/c I like to tinker and I WANT this to work! For example, if you wore a VB suit under a jacket baffled to 1.5", it might get you to 0F. But then you'd have to strip off the VB suit every morning in ~10F weather...not worth saving a few ounces in my book!
Definitely interested in what you find out, though...be sure to report your results!
“Republics are created by the virtue, public spirit, and intelligence of the citizens. They fall when the wise are banished from the public councils because they dare to be honest, and the profligate are rewarded because they flatter the people, in order to betray them.” ~Judge Joseph Story
- My site: http://www.tothewoods.net/
- Designer, Jeff's Gear Hammock / Pack Cover by JRB
IMPOSSIBLE JUST TAKES LONGER
Happy Thanksgiving MM!
The parka I was considering would be quite a bit more than the WM Flash. The FF parka is rated for Denali, so it's far from a "puffy layer'. It has 13 ounces of down which is about the same as the Nunatek parka but about $150 less. The FF parka also has zipper draft flap to reduce the impact of the zipper.
Personally, I like zippers. Since the FF parka has interior water bottle pockets, zippers are pretty much essential if you want to access your stuff. It would also help to regulate temps more than an anorak if needed.
JJ, I understand your reasoning on the 3" baffles, but I believe that the closer the insulation is to ones body, the more efficient it is at retaining heat.
If the parka was designed to keep someone warm enough in base camp around minus 30 F, it should hold to 0 F for sleeping.
I sort of came at this whole thing when I was thinking about those winter group gatherings at Mt. Rogers or Roan. Those evening were just darned difficult to stay warm outside of my hammock with all of its insulation. I wore a JRB NS at Roan with a poncho cape over top and a 300 wt fleece under that, but was still too cold to hold my eating utensils in the near zero temps with winds gusting around 50 mph. From there I thought, instead of making my hammock insulation into camp insulation why not use camp insulation for hammock insulation. I should be able to sit around until the cows thaw and come home in a parka that heavy. When it comes time to turn in, just get in the hammock and drape an elephant's foot bag over my legs and lower torso while using a Winter fractional UQ beneath.
I'm really not sure about the application of it all. I suppose if I get a chance to prove it, I could then go about applying it to my winter backpack trips. I think the weight savings would be somewhat marginal, but the reduction in bulk could be substantial in a winter pack.
I'm definitely interested in what you find out...be sure to post the results! (Extra points for pics of it on Denali.)
“Republics are created by the virtue, public spirit, and intelligence of the citizens. They fall when the wise are banished from the public councils because they dare to be honest, and the profligate are rewarded because they flatter the people, in order to betray them.” ~Judge Joseph Story
- My site: http://www.tothewoods.net/
- Designer, Jeff's Gear Hammock / Pack Cover by JRB
IMPOSSIBLE JUST TAKES LONGER
While I do want to try Denali again, I'm not seeing me toting a hammock stand along for the ride. When I did it in '94, it was minus 20ish F and not a tree in sight and that was MAY!
You may have to settle for Bob's Bald in the Slickrock Wilderness for my testing. Finding someone fool enough to tag along in those temps to take the photos may be the real challenge.
Happy Thanksgiving everyone! I am getting ready to put on some pounds!
This is an interesting thread. And it shows there are many different ways to go about all of this. The challenge is finding the one that is the best combination of weight efficiency AND convenience. Very interesting reading about trying to stay warm outside your hammock at Mt. Rogers and thinking "From there I thought, instead of making my hammock insulation into camp insulation why not use camp insulation for hammock insulation.".
That is where I have been for a long time. Using a wearable UQ as a parka seems too much hassle, what with disconnecting from the hammock - maybe after much struggle to get the perfect adjustment- and then having to reattach. But a wearable TQ seems much less hassle. But I didn't have one to play with. I often thought something like a JRB Stealth ( or heavier No Sniv or HS Sniv when way colder) used inside my PeaPod would be great in winter, and then wear it around camp. And of course, layering it over some additional lighter puffy jackets according to conditions.
But I don't have one, partly because I was resistant to quilts at 1st ( kept getting cold trying to use my bag as quilt, later figured out how), then took advantage of a humongous sale that allowed me to try a Golight Ultra 20 TQ ( it has been great for the money, but probably should have held out for a wearable JRB). So I have been taking the "why not use camp insulation for hammock insulation" approach all this time. And it is not a bad approach. For example, using my somewhat puffy jacket/pants and/or a 9 oz Patagonia down vest(quite thick) either worn normally, or worn unzipped and backwards, or just draped over me inside the PeaPod. This got me by for top warmth in the 20s(didn't even need the or take the vest in the 30s), and every bit of it I would have had with me anyway, used for sitting around camp and some of it hiked in.
But here is the thing: the above got me by OK, but I have no doubt that a wearable TQ inside the pod would have been much more convenient and toastier also, or also allow me to go to much colder temps in the PeaPod than just using my clothes. And the weight wouldn't be much different than my vest and jacket combined. But here is the big question: would the wearable UQ function for well as camp wear when replacing my 14 oz "waterproof/breathable" zip up Polarguard hooded jacket with down vest inside(or outside) that?
I just don't know. I do know I would not want to expose my down TQ to some of the damp weather that I did not worry about with that PG jacket. Which way is most efficient? I do not know!
Last edited by BillyBob58; 11-24-2011 at 14:50.
Happy Thanksgiving to you too BillyBob!
I have plenty of gear and different ways to allow me to sleep comfortably well below 0 F.
The times that I did get cold in camp at those outings, I just got in my hammock and heated from early hypothermia to toasty in less than half an hour. A peapod with an extra UQ and a TQ makes that pretty easy to accomplish. What it does not do is keep me warm around camp.
I do have a JRB NS, and there is no doubt in my mind that it contributes greatly toward keeping me warm. That being said, it is still no parka. The FF parka has a nice hood with a faceguard and sleeves with cuffs all of which prevents drafts. While the NS adds warmth, it does not provide the same seal.
Another bit of clothing that I added for cold campwear within the last year is a pair of WM Flight pants that weigh about 10.5 ounces and have Gore Windstopper on the outside. Those will make me all but sweat above 10 F while sitting still. The problem is the same as with all down gear, it compresses when pressure is applied. When sitting, I still need a sit pad, and in a hammock, the bottom will compress under me.
Your mentioning the peapod made me wonder if I wasn't making this all more complicated than it needs to be with the short TQ. The short TQ,s I've seen weigh about 16 ounces, and my Leighlo Winter UQ weighs about 18 ounces. Those two combined weigh 34 ounces whereas my 20 degree peapod weighs 38 ounces. The peapod by itself is slightly bulkier and heavier than the other UQ/TQ combo, but it would probably work with the old trusty slacksided hammock application of the peapod when combined with the parka and pants.
While the FF parka is can be made from Epic or Event, I'd probably still wear VB layers under the down pants and parka. That would remove any risk of compromising the down with perspiration.
It sure would be nice to put on your camp insulation and when its time crawl in the hammock without more changing of layers. Now if nature calls in the middle of the night, that's another set of problems completely...
Might work! May some arctic blasts soon be upon you so that you can test these theories out. I want to see if you incorporate VB clothing into this system and what it does for you.
So your thinking PeaPod, WM pants and FF Parka, and maybe VB clothing? This is for zero or a bit colder? Are you thinking of anything extra for the bottom warmth(back,butt,legs,feet)?
Maybe a leg or possible butt pad, or pad down in the pod? Won't you have a pad with you anyway?
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