Down Parka with Less UQ and Shorter TQ

**wisenber** · 11-12-2011, 20:47

Originally Posted by BillyBob58

I think an easy experiment should tell you how much help you can get from it. Take something with 2" of loft ( from down, single layer ) and lay on one layer on the next cold day. Maybe on the next 40 degree day, which would need about 30*F ( 70-40) worth of protection. If your back and butt are warm enough, you are good to go.

This, as you know, would be no problem on the ground where a pad was providing nearly all of your insulation anyway. Or, with a synthetic parka which would still compress, but not nearly as much.

I'm thinking my Nuptse with a weathershield at 40 would be a close proximation, but it'll probably be hot on top.

**kayak karl** · 11-12-2011, 20:48

wouldn't the parka compress under your back and shoulders??? would thing you would get cold at about 50 degrees. 0 degree backpacking is nothing to take lightly.

**wisenber** · 11-12-2011, 21:06

Originally Posted by kayak karl

wouldn't the parka compress under your back and shoulders??? would thing you would get cold at about 50 degrees. 0 degree backpacking is nothing to take lightly.

I figured the parka might give me 20 to 30 degrees of warmth. That and a 3 season fraction UQ would get me close to 0.

When it's going to be below 10, I usually take my NF Nuptse which weighs about 27 ounce. The FF parka with hood would add about 3 ounces. The elephant bags I've seen come in under 18 ounces.

**kayak karl** · 11-12-2011, 21:19

Originally Posted by wisenber

I figured the parka might give me 20 to 30 degrees of warmth. That and a 3 season fraction UQ would get me close to 0.

When it's going to be below 10, I usually take my NF Nuptse which weighs about 27 ounce. The FF parka with hood would add about 3 ounces. The elephant bags I've seen come in under 18 ounces.

thats why they are called puff jackets. the puff gives you the insulation. lay on it and the insulation is gone.

**wisenber** · 11-12-2011, 22:15

Originally Posted by kayak karl

thats why they are called puff jackets. the puff gives you the insulation. lay on it and the insulation is gone.

I understand that. Most of the "puffy layers" tend to be UL down sweaters and such used to take the chill off. The FF parka on the other hand is a full bore mountaineering parka with a WPB shell. If it's being used at -30, that would be about 100 degrees of insulation when uncompressed. If it can approach 1/5 of that level of insulation when under me, it's done the job I was after.

When I experimented with VB clothing last year, I discovered that the VB layers kept me warm around 0 using a 3 season TQ and UQ. Combing an elephant foot bag with the parka and a 3-season UQ could potentially get me in the the -10 range.

Here's the weight bulk benefit I'm looking at.

My present -10 rig would be a 20 degree peapod at 38 ounces, 3 season Te-Wa UQ at 13 ounces, and a No Sniveler at 21 ounces. If I want to use the No Sniveler as a parka, I still need a hood and sleeves.
That's 72 ounces without sleeves or hood. It's probably good well below minus 10, but 72 ounces.

The set up I'm considering would be the 30 ounce parka with attached hood (and sleeves), a 16 ounce elephant bag, and the 13 ounce Te-Wa UQ for a total of about 62 ounces.

Those who have hiked with me can attest that I'm no gram weenie, but giving up that bulk in the pack along with the weight sure would be nice. Of course, if push came to shove, I could easily move to my LeighLo Winter UQ at 18 ounces, but that would be if the elephant bag were working.

**kayak karl** · 11-12-2011, 22:23

what temp are u going for. my zero degree w/tarp,hammock and quilts is 5 lb?

**wisenber** · 11-12-2011, 22:36

Originally Posted by kayak karl

what temp are u going for. my zero degree w/tarp,hammock and quilts is 5 lb?

The set up I mentioned along with my Winter tarp and hammock comes in around 7 lb. I've used that in the -15 range before with no problems. Those temps were pretty rare around here until the last few years.

The set up I was considering would be more of a 0 degree (with comfort margin) set up.

My No Sniveler is great for adding some "spot warmth" around camp. Adding sleeves and a hood (already own one of the hoods) makes it "closer" to a true parka, but it ain't a parka. That FF parka doesn't have gaps on the sides and it does have water bottle pockets on the inside. Come to think of it, a couple of warm platy's might make for an even lower temp range.

**hangnout** · 11-13-2011, 10:30

I was thinking about a similar setup. I think you are on the right track with the VB shirt to keep moisture out of the parka. That was the problem I had with the parka style setup. Even with a lighter weight down jacket it is too hard to regulate temp resulting in moisture moving into the jacket.

Most people tend to think of the parka as part of several layers of clothing. I think just the VB shirt and parka would be the best combo for sleeping. This would allow the body heat to use the lofty insulation the best. Something I have learned over the last couple years is that less clothing allows the quilts/bags to work better.

I started to make a elephant foot TQ for this winter. This could easily be a dual use quilt that could be used as a UQ. Maybe we can talk some more on the BSF trip. I know someone who can make a prototype

**wisenber** · 11-13-2011, 10:51

Originally Posted by hangnout

I was thinking about a similar setup. I think you are on the right track with the VB shirt to keep moisture out of the parka. That was the problem I had with the parka style setup. Even with a lighter weight down jacket it is too hard to regulate temp resulting in moisture moving into the jacket.

Most people tend to think of the parka as part of several layers of clothing. I think just the VB shirt and parka would be the best combo for sleeping. This would allow the body heat to use the lofty insulation the best. Something I have learned over the last couple years is that less clothing allows the quilts/bags to work better.

I started to make a elephant foot TQ for this winter. This could easily be a dual use quilt that could be used as a UQ. Maybe we can talk some more on the BSF trip. I know someone who can make a prototype

The parka should still allow for temperature regulation since it has a two way zipper and an adjustable hood. I do think the VB layer would be somewhat critical if the parka is both your insulating layer and a key part of your sleep system. If the parka fails with that commitment, you'd best be making tracks to the trailhead.

My guess is that most elephant foot bags are pretty basic. Making it usable as a UQ might be a bit more challenging. Making one that can be expanded into a Summer TQ might be easier. Perhaps a full length Summer TQ that will let the top fold into the bottom to make a double layered elephant foot bag?

**hangnout** · 11-13-2011, 11:38

Originally Posted by wisenber

My guess is that most elephant foot bags are pretty basic. Making it usable as a UQ might be a bit more challenging. Making one that can be expanded into a Summer TQ might be easier. Perhaps a full length Summer TQ that will let the top fold into the bottom to make a double layered elephant foot bag?

Your right, a basic half bag is pretty easy to make.

The UQ conversion would just be a few tweaks in size and additional hardware to close footbox. For example the 60" trapezoid shaped UQ could easily be converted to a half TQ resulting in a 48" half TQ after footbox is formed. I already had this figured out when I was thinking of using a similar half bag setup.

I like the idea of the summer TQ conversion. Folding the top into the bottom would work over the legs without compressing the down too much on the layer folded in. It would fill the voids around the legs very well. It would just be a matter of how everything attaches when folded.