Sleeping bags

[mattnin]

Very nice. I have a wiggys Ultima Thule with overbag, a nautilus and hunter. Love wiggys bags, they're so heavy though but very comfortable and perfect for car camping. I got lucky though and feel fortunate to now have loco libre quilts. My nautilus with pillow is 4.5 lbs and a wiggys bed roll is 4.4 lbs. I can't believe I used to backpack with wiggys gear, my pack used to be around 50 lbs. My loco libre top and bottom quilts are 1.26 lbs for the same temp rating and as much as I love my wiggys stuff, that gear is now only used for car camping

[megasupermagnum]

Very nice. I have a wiggys Ultima Thule with overbag, a nautilus and hunter. Love wiggys bags, they're so heavy though but very comfortable and perfect for car camping. I got lucky though and feel fortunate to now have loco libre quilts. My nautilus with pillow is 4.5 lbs and a wiggys bed roll is 4.4 lbs. I can't believe I used to backpack with wiggys gear, my pack used to be around 50 lbs. My loco libre top and bottom quilts are 1.26 lbs for the same temp rating and as much as I love my wiggys stuff, that gear is now only used for car camping

That's a whole different discussion. Given the choice, I would take down everything for sure. The price can't be overlooked though. The price of down stuff is downright scary.

The other side to that is I can't get by with a lot of normal gear. A lot of your off the shelf ultralight sleeping bags are simply too narrow in the shoulders, and often too short overall for me to fit in them at all. That's one of the reasons I gave top quilts a try.

We all upgrade as we go, but the cost can't be overlooked. Your Loco Libra top and underquilts are likley over $600. Plus now you need that pillow and possibly a foot pad to stay warm, and I'm still not convinced it's as warm as a sleeping bag. Sure, the Wiggys weighs more, it's bigger, and it's synthetic. It's also $160, you don't need an underquilt if it doesn't freeze where you are, and I still feel its warmer at freezing than a 20F underquilt and top quilt combo. That's just me though, not impressed with top quilts at all. There are lighter sleeping bags out there if that's the concern, they just cost a lot, lot more.

[matted]

I'm certainly not trying to steer those who like top quilts away from them. I'm only trying to say those who aren't that impressed, or even those that don't have them, a sleeping bag is way better than the internet has you believe. It doesn't even have to be the top of the line either. My go-to car camping bag is my Wiggy's bag. Myself, I did not find one thing about a top quilt, or a zipped open sleeping bag that I liked. In theory it's more room. In reality it's just a lot of tucking and staying rolled up.
There's always going to be preferences, that the thing with hang your own hang. Don't feel bad if doing things the "wrong" way feels better.

Hear hear!

My all-time favourite sleeping bag is my Feathered Friends Tanager 20, which is a fairly unique bag in that it has no zipper and is insanely light/compact for a 20 degree sleeping bag. It is light/compact enough that it is lighter/more compact than my Loco Libre Ghost Pepper TQ (also rated for 20 degrees), nullifying at least one argument in favour of quilts (that doing away with the zipper and extra fabric/down beneath you makes it smaller and lighter). Part of its design to reach its 20 degree rating with such a light and compact bag is that it assumes you are wearing a puffy hooded jacket, which I most certainly would be in anything but a hooded mummy bag once the temps are below freezing. If people are trying to get inside a full size mummy bag and use it with the hood in a hammock, rather than just get the 3/4 length Tanager up to the shoulders, I sort of get why they might be turned off of bags...

The obvious drawback with the Tanager vs a quilt is that it restricts movement, but I almost see this as a plus... I sort of like being straight-jacketed to a degree, especially in a hammock when I don't find I need to turn over or move around as much as I do on a pad or mattress. I find when using my LL TQ that invariably the quilt will slide down a bit through the night, eventually leading to my feet leaving the footbox, and occasionally the footbox will fall right out of the hammock. None of this ever happens with the Tanager.

[megasupermagnum]

That's where preferences can differ. Myself, I hate being restricted, which might sound strange being as I prefer sleeping bags, but it requires a big enough bag. If I were to give a top quilt a try again it would have to be one with elastic and other retainers so that I can move around without it coming undone. If I have to re tuck every time I scoot around, that's a non starter for me. The clothing I wear can vary, but I definitely will not wear a jacket to bed. Logistically night is when I'm airing out my jacket, underwear, socks, etc. When it's going to be really cold, it's a good idea to have sweat pants and a fleece shirt to sleep in, but otherwise, I'm sleeping in underwear. In my opinion, if a quilt or bag cant work at it's temp rating like that, it's not really that rating. A Wiggy's 0F bag is fine in underwear at least to 0F on the ground, and at least to 32F in a hammock with nothing underneath. If you put a 40F underquilt under a Wiggys, I bet it's good to 0F easy, if not lower in a hammock. My underquilt is a 0F, and it's still good at -20F with the Wiggys, I've never been in colder than that.

As I said, I'm the complete opposite of a gymnast. I'm 6'5" ex football player, currently trying to be a powerlifter. If I can get in a full mummy sleeping bag in a hammock, anyone can. It's not even hard to do. I mean full mummy bag with hood and everything. If someone prefers a top quilt for comfort, by all means do that. I just don't see difficulty getting in, or weight of a s sleeping bag being a real argument.

[cougarmeat]

Because there is very little "untuck" factor with a sleeping bag, it would be, in general, warmer than a TQ - and bulkier, and heavier. An "in between" would be something like HG's TQ with the Wide option. But if you are 6'5" ex-football player, you may have to order two.

[megasupermagnum]

Because there is very little "untuck" factor with a sleeping bag, it would be, in general, warmer than a TQ - and bulkier, and heavier. An "in between" would be something like HG's TQ with the Wide option. But if you are 6'5" ex-football player, you may have to order two.

But how much is it really? That's really hard to say. If we take matted's example of the FF's Tanager 20F down bag, it is listed at 38 ounces. If we look at the Warbonet Diamondback 20F down top quilt, it is listed at 20 ounces. That seems like a huge difference. The thing is you won't need as warm of an under quilt with the bag, so if we look at the UTG underquilts, the full length, a 20F is 23 ounces, and a 40F is 18 ounces. So if you had a FF's 20F bag and UTG 40F under quilt, your total would be 56 ounces. If you had the WB 20F top quilt and a UTG 20F under quilt the total would be 43 ounces. And that's assuming those two setups are comparably warm, which is hard to say they are or are not. Personally I feel like doing mental gymnastics like that for a difference of 12 ounces is well into the splitting hairs territory.

I don't know about everyone, but I can't afford to own a bunch of different gear for every possible situation. I buy warmer than needed, and just figure it out when it gets too warm. I'm not going to buy a set of 40f gear just so I can save a pound or two the three times a year it's hot enough to justify it.

[matted]

But how much is it really? That's really hard to say. If we take matted's example of the FF's Tanager 20F down bag, it is listed at 38 ounces.

Just out of curiosity, where did you find the weight for the Tanager? According to the FF website, the version I have is 18.6 ounces, even the large version is still <20 ounces. Or are you including the weight of the down puffy jacket?

My LL 20 degree TQ is ~21 ounces so choosing between them is mostly due to comfort.... they also pair together nicely for temps down to 0, but I haven't tried subzero yet.

[megasupermagnum]

Just out of curiosity, where did you find the weight for the Tanager? According to the FF website, the version I have is 18.6 ounces, even the large version is still <20 ounces. Or are you including the weight of the down puffy jacket?

My LL 20 degree TQ is ~21 ounces so choosing between them is mostly due to comfort.... they also pair together nicely for temps down to 0, but I haven't tried subzero yet.

Good catch! I saw 2 pounds, 6 ounces. It's actually 1 pound, 2.6 ounces. My fault. I'll call it 19 ounces, so it's actually LIGHTER than a comparable top quilt! Whether or not it's warmer than the top quilt is up for debate, I'm not going to spend $500 to find out. But the argument that top quilts are lighter than sleeping bags isn't true at all.

[matted]

Good catch! I saw 2 pounds, 6 ounces. It's actually 1 pound, 2.6 ounces. My fault. I'll call it 19 ounces, so it's actually LIGHTER than a comparable top quilt! Whether or not it's warmer than the top quilt is up for debate, I'm not going to spend $500 to find out. But the argument that top quilts are lighter than sleeping bags isn't true at all.

It is certainly not for everyone, but I love the bag. I was lucky enough to get it for "only" $350 or so before the prices went crazy over the last couple of years. It is certainly very close in warmth to my LL 20 degree TQ but doing an apples to apples comparison is hard.

[PopcornFool]

I'm not going to buy a set of 40f gear just so I can save a pound or two the three times a year it's hot enough to justify it.

I, on the other hand, backpack frequently, year 'round, and in all sorts of temps, and saving the ounces is worth the cost of acquiring multiple sets of gear for different weather.

The most common advice I see on this forum (particularly for less experienced hangers) is to try different things, figure out what works for you, and enjoy the journey. It's a rare thing indeed when I see someone aggressively pushing for quilts over sleeping bags. I've actually seen many more folks suggest sticking with sleeping bags initially if you already have them, particularly when first starting out. I also attend many group hangs each year throughout the mid-Atlantic states and I regularly come across folks using sleeping bags instead of quilts.

There are certainly many among us who prefer quilts over sleeping bags. I'm in that camp. But I don't push one over the other. When asked, I'll explain why I prefer quilts, but I wouldn't presume to push my opinion on anyone else or try to prove why their choice of a different insulation is wrong.

As Phantom Grappler so eloquently replied in your very first response to this thread: "If it works for you, that’s all that matters." A shorter (and very common) way of saying this is: HYOH.