Huggers vs. Straps in the Lands of the Large Trees

[FlyingAvocado]

Hello Friends!

I know this is not a new question, and I have looked at different existing posts and watched Shug's videos on the subject, but I just don't have the right information to make a decision on what would work best for me. I am looking to go from cinch buckles and straps, to a much lighter Spider Web 1.5 and whoopies (might make some UCRs instead). I usually hang around the parts Central California and SoCal where the trees are very big.

I haven't really seen too much on people opinions on how tree size plays into this decision except for a post where someone mentioned that they just use a little extra from their whoopies to wrap around when a tree is bigger than their hugger usually would handle... but this seems like it might leave some scarring as well.

Anyone have any experience using Huggers with big trees? What about ease of setup -- which would you say it is faster and easier to setup straps or huggers after a really big day and your exhausted?

Thanks!

[iceman857]

From my understanding, the only difference between the two is a sewn loop on two ends of the straps instead of just one. Hugger=2 loops, one at each end. I think you may be asking because there are multiple ways of attaching your whoopie sling to the straps (e.g., Marlinspike hitch or larks head to the hugger end). If you're unsure which you want to use, I'd say go ahead and get the huggers because you can always use a marlinspike hitch somewhere along the middle of the webbing.

[cougarmeat]

FlyingAvacado - remember, whatever you read was written at a point in time. As time moves forward, ideas/techniques change. I think huggers evolved to just the strap with a loop at one end.

I would use a whoopie sling as a connection from the hammock to the tree-side anchor, but not as the tree anchor itself. I would NOT run the Amsteel around the tree - even partially - in any public setting. Am I concerned about the tree? No. Our "Big Billy Goat Gruff" Ponderosas eat Amsteel for breakfast. But we are dealing with public perception and park officials whose policies come from people living in areas where trees are surrounded by concrete.

I think DutchWare sells a 2-inch hugger strap. That might be handy for any car camping kit to make a park official happy. Or a seat belt from an old car could be used. Note to seal cut ends with heat. If you have an outdoor store (like REI) around, they probably have a sealer they use when cutting cord and would do that for you.

As mentioned, the difference between a hugger and a strap is the hugger has a loop at each and comes in fixed, relatively short, lengths. The strap can be ordered for any length. They both go around a tree and they both can hold a Marlin Spike hitch for your Whoopie loop. When I experimented with Whoopies, I put a carabiner in the Marlin Spike because I didn't want to deal with toggle/loop issues.

I also made an extension strap by putting a 2-foot dogbone inside a length of tubular webbing. It would create more pressure on the tree than just the flat 1 - 1.5 inch webbing but less pressure than just the Amsteel itself - and it would look more benign to any park official evaluating the setup. It was supposed to weigh less than an extension completely out of webbing. That can be debated.

In the wild, that tubing/Amsteel combination was made to protect the back side of the tree, the webbing didn't have to go all the way around. But you are not dealing with reasonableness with park officials, you are dealing with perception and fixed policy.

Out on your own, in a real forest, the trees don't care. In the Pacific Northwest, you'd use a flat strap around the tree instead of just Amsteel because, as mentioned above, the sharp hard bark of those trees would cut right through AmSteel under tension. I'm guessing their cousins - your CA redwoods - would do the same. For thin-barked trees, you'd use webbing because it's the right thing to do (or put vertical sticks/twigs between the Amsteel and the tree).

With a strap or hugger, I don't run one end through the loop to cinch it to the tree. Too often I have to make a height adjustment on the tree and of course, there is always a branch, or sap, in the way so I can't just slide the anchor strap up or down. I'd have to completely reset that end. I use a Dutch Clip or carabiner, or these days an EVO Loop - something I can open and close - so I only have to open it, move the strap, and close it again.

To finally answer your question - I doubt you'd find a Hugger long enough for the PNW trees. A polyester (or other material - but not nylon, it stretches too much) strap with a loop on one end can be ordered at any length. Either hugger or strap can hold a Marlin Spike. Whoopies were too fussy for me. I'd use daisy chain or webbing and buckles.

Here's what happens when you try to set up with PNW trees, a 9-ft daisy chain, and a short GrandTrunk Nano Hammock:

BenhamHammock.jpg

[nanok]

a few years ago i was designing a new tree strap/tree hugger, partly to solve the problems you're describing. i started a thread here at the time, describing one of the first designs. it's a little bit complicated, but it does solve a lot of problems, so i though it was worth developing further. (i continued to play and the next version i came up with, shortly after, was good enough i'm happy with it and still prefer it today). I never documented the new setup, as there was no interest, but if you want to try, i can make time for it (i'm not just being lazy: i'd need to make some drawing/schematic, take some pictures, and also, ideally, make a short video, so it would take some doing). but i'll describe briefly what it does, if not how it works:

a normal tree strap how it is most often used requires a webbing length of PI*d (the circumfernece of the tree, 3.14 times diameter of the tree) to wrap around the tree safely. Being that it is a larks head hitch on the tree, and due to the capstan effect, most of the load is concentrated in the first few inches of contact with the bark, and there might be a load multiplier of the force in the suspension, depending on how the hitch is positioned on the tree (so overloading both the strap and the tree bark). The other problem i wanted fixed was that there should be an easy way to attach the tarp ridgeline directly to the tree strap, and to do so _before_ the hammock comes up, because the ridgeline should be attached up, like the hammock suspension is, and because it should be easy to attach it before the hammock, so the hammock is deployed under the cover of the tarp.

the result is a setup where the amount of webbing needed is only sightly more than "PI*r" (so half the usual, like 3.5ft for a tree that's 2ft across, instead of needing 6.5ft for the same tree), as that's as much as touches the tree, the rest is 3mm dyneema (like amsteel); both sides of the strap are loaded, so the load is distributed evenly (it's like doubling your strap width), and because the load is distributed like this, it also means the capstan effect is a lot less relevant, which further reduces the damage to the tree. It's also easily adjustable and no hardware (hardware could be used, i just like to do without). The way it works is that it creates an "attachement point" on the tree, where the tarp and the hammock can be connected separately (and, in a group scenario, it can also be easily shared with other tarps around. The disadvantage is it is a little bit weird to understand why it works at first, but it's not hard to setup once you get used to the fact that "yeah, it actually does work, even if it seems it shouldn't".

let me know if you (or anyone) want to play with it.

i'll just add a short silly note here, which is a bit of a story and not "technical". i really like forests and trees, always did, and i like big trees, old trees, and old growth forests. These days, i also miss them, as it seems so difficult to find them over here, with all the logging and "smart exploitation" (in some places, where exploitation is not "smart", it's hard to find any trees at all, of anysize). I know it might seem exaggerated sometimes how strict some rules are or how silly they seem, sometimes i'd argue they are indeed absurd, but often the rule being easily enforceable and easy to remember might be more important than it being engineering perfect. I'm a photographer, and i love photographing big ol' trees, one of the reasons i consider to cross the atlantic every now and again is that, well, you have so many of them, over there. They are still there because you let them, not by accident. just sayin'

[TominMN]

a few years ago i was designing a new tree strap/tree hugger, partly to solve the problems you're describing. i started a thread here at the time, describing one of the first designs. it's a little bit complicated, but it does solve a lot of problems, so i though it was worth developing further. (i continued to play and the next version i came up with, shortly after, was good enough i'm happy with it and still prefer it today). I never documented the new setup, as there was no interest, but if you want to try, i can make time for it (i'm not just being lazy: i'd need to make some drawing/schematic, take some pictures, and also, ideally, make a short video, so it would take some doing). but i'll describe briefly what it does, if not how it works:

a normal tree strap how it is most often used requires a webbing length of PI*d (the circumfernece of the tree, 3.14 times diameter of the tree) to wrap around the tree safely. Being that it is a larks head hitch on the tree, and due to the capstan effect, most of the load is concentrated in the first few inches of contact with the bark, and there might be a load multiplier of the force in the suspension, depending on how the hitch is positioned on the tree (so overloading both the strap and the tree bark). The other problem i wanted fixed was that there should be an easy way to attach the tarp ridgeline directly to the tree strap, and to do so _before_ the hammock comes up, because the ridgeline should be attached up, like the hammock suspension is, and because it should be easy to attach it before the hammock, so the hammock is deployed under the cover of the tarp.

the result is a setup where the amount of webbing needed is only sightly more than "PI*r" (so half the usual, like 3.5ft for a tree that's 2ft across, instead of needing 6.5ft for the same tree), as that's as much as touches the tree, the rest is 3mm dyneema (like amsteel); both sides of the strap are loaded, so the load is distributed evenly (it's like doubling your strap width), and because the load is distributed like this, it also means the capstan effect is a lot less relevant, which further reduces the damage to the tree. It's also easily adjustable and no hardware (hardware could be used, i just like to do without). The way it works is that it creates an "attachement point" on the tree, where the tarp and the hammock can be connected separately (and, in a group scenario, it can also be easily shared with other tarps around. The disadvantage is it is a little bit weird to understand why it works at first, but it's not hard to setup once you get used to the fact that "yeah, it actually does work, even if it seems it shouldn't".

let me know if you (or anyone) want to play with it.

...

I think sharing whatever you're willing to draw, photograph, or videograph would be much appreciated by any number of folks here.

[Phantom Grappler]

If tree is not too big around, I pass strap around tree twice. This forms a round turn. Strap exits in front of tree. That part of strap will hang down a bit initially, but the part of strap that encircles tree—does not move at all—no sliding down.
Entire strap takes force along all points of contact with tree. This gives least amount of movement and bark abrasion—abrasion that would be to bark and strap—if strap moved.
But strap twice around tree—does not move.
It can’t move because it’s too tight to move.

Does this method cause more stress to strap and or tree—I don’t know—so far there have been no broken straps or broken trees.

Just because my setup is this way, doesn’t mean it’s right, and no one else is required to use this setup

[Double]

I use Dutch’s 15’ 3k rated straps (I’m a big boy and I like piece of mind ��) I haven’t need it, but I also keep a 10’ ucr in my kit in case of ever running into a situation where one tree was 15 plus feet round.