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  1. #201
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    Quote Originally Posted by Foxpoop View Post
    Our method of using the mini lineloks allows for individual adjustment of the nettles. This might work for those who want to use an incubator or differential cut underquilt.
    I have a 3.6 CS UQ mentally queued in my head and I'm going to try your lineloc method, looks good and adjustable since I sometimes use different hammocks. I'll sew channels like I usually do, in case it just doesn't work for me, but I'll also add linelocs on grosgrain tabs on either end. I'll definitely get some day-glo shockcord now that you've shown me the light, so to speak.
    Caminante, son tus huellas el camino y nada más... - Antonio Machado

  2. #202
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    Quote Originally Posted by kitsapcowboy View Post
    So for the gram weenies out there -- a group to which I cannot claim to have earned admission -- how do the total weights of these various clew UQ suspensions compare to the hardware and shock cord used in a traditional primary/secondary UQ suspension?
    Roughly 20-40g less for mine.


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  3. #203
    New Member pfeif's Avatar
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    Louisville, KY
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    It hasn't been mentioned yet, but swapping out the metal ring for a dyneema soft shackle would be an easy way to cut weight

  4. #204
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    Quote Originally Posted by kitsapcowboy View Post
    With respect, while it is both clear and intriguing how a clew suspension can reduce fiddling and increase both comfort and performance, I must admit that I was having trouble wrapping my head around how it would actually also save weight until I penciled out some figures. Devil's advocacy is not my strong point, but bear with me as I review some of my mass accounting, with the caveat that I have never researched or attempted a clew before and that there may be some errors in thinking or arithmetic...

    If I were going to make a DIY 80" x 50" underquilt for an 11-foot (132") hammock, I might add two 80" x 5" folded fabric strips to the long edges for the primary suspension and two 50" x 5" folded strips for the cinch channels on the ends. In total, the channels add 1300 square inches, or almost exactly one square yard of fabric, 45 grams of added weight if I'm using fairly robust ripstop nylon fabric. For shock cord, I'd double the ridge line length (approximately 2 x 110") to construct the primary suspension and use about another 100" for secondary suspension anchored at the four corners of the quilt. Then I'd need another 120" to thread through the end channels. That's a total of 440" of shock cord, nearly 37 feet, at 2.12 grams per foot, or just shy of another 80 grams of added weight in cordage. Add a generous 25 grams worth of additional hardware and grosgrain ribbon, and you are looking at a grand total of 150 grams for all the rigging in a traditional primary/secondary channel suspension system.

    Now to mount the same 80" x 50" underquilt on an 11-foot hammock using a basic clew suspension, one might use 8 shock cord nettles at each end (16 total). Assuming all of the fabric channels can be eliminated, the hammock body is 52" longer than the quilt (132-80=52), so you have to make up a distance of 26" on each end with each 1/8" shock cord nettle, which is a total of 416", or just under 35 feet, weighing about 75 grams. For attachment at the short edges of the underquilt, a set of 16 KAM snaps and two yards of 1/2" grosgrain ribbon weighs just under 15 grams. A pair of SMC descender rings to collect the other ends of nettles for attachment at the gathered ends of the hammock weighs just over 20 grams. If you opted to use LineLoc 3s to make each of the nettles independently adjustable, you could do so by replacing the KAM snaps at a weight penalty of just over 10 grams. Unless I am missing some additional hardware, a modern shock cord clew suspension could be used to hang the same full-length underquilt for a grand total 100-110 grams, somewhere around an ounce and a half less than the standard rigging, which does indeed jive with the reported weight savings. (In truth, the assumptions and estimates above are necessarily rough, owing to both stretch and trigonometry.)

    However, it occurs to me -- and seems important to consider -- that as the underquilt gets shorter, the weight savings of the clew suspension versus the standard is lost. Reduction in the length of the underquilt will mandate proportionate lengthening in two lengths of shock cord in the secondary suspension of the standard setup, whie the length of the primary suspension remains unchanged; conversely, the same length reduction in a quilt hung with a clew suspension will require proportionate adjustment in eight pairs of shock cord nettles, adding approximately four times as much weight for the same change. (Again, owing to stretch and trigonometry, these are ball park estimates, but you get the idea...) Fortunately, shock cord doesn't weigh very much, but I think it's fair to note that suspending less quilt with more shock cord could begin to cut into the weight savings.

    Regardless, I think clew suspension is a clever innovation to continue exploring for all the other reasons cited to date in this thread.
    I didn't use shock cord for my clew nettles. I used cheap elastic which I think was less than 1mm thick. Because my little quilt is quite light, I didn't need strong stuff. I will post exact weights before and after when I get home from work.



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  5. #205
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    @kitsapcowboy: A few observations on your calculations: you're assuming the "linelocks" construction method. If you're using the "snaps" method (which i will broadly document next week, stay tuned), it uses 1/16" shock cord which weighs very very little compared to the 1/8" flavor. This is where all of the weight savings comes from on my model.

    A descender ring is overkill for this project. Small keyring, mini keychain carabiner, or shackle will work just fine, weigh less, and cost less too.

    You are partially correct that the amount of cordage goes up as the quilt length goes down. That is one of the reasons i stated in my original article that this method may not be appropriate for short quilts. One thing you can do is keep the clew length the same, but tie it to the hammock with a "lead line" of cord that you can adjust. (This is how i get my quilt onto my 13' brazilian hammock at home). ASCII diagram:

    -----\
    -------\
    ---------O-----------lead line------->
    -------/
    -----/



    I will take some specific weight measurements on my system. I currently have both suspension systems removed. However, I don't feel any need to prove or disprove weight savings because everyone's setup is going to be different anyway. "It works for me" is all i can say.

  6. #206
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    If I did linelocs, I'd do the mini variety and use 1/16 or 5/64 shock cord.
    Caminante, son tus huellas el camino y nada más... - Antonio Machado

  7. #207
    Senior Member jellyfish's Avatar
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    I like using the descending rings because they look cool and aesthetics make me happy. However, my next quilt (summer weight) I'm going to try out the split rings.


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    I sew things on youtube.
    I don’t sew on commission, so please don’t ask. Thanks.

  8. #208
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    Happy to have found this before I finish my new quilt! Thanks for the heads up on using the clew setup - I believe its going to give me a more uniform hang and overall better insulation.

  9. #209
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    Quote Originally Posted by rosannemck View Post
    I didn't use shock cord for my clew nettles. I used cheap elastic which I think was less than 1mm thick. Because my little quilt is quite light, I didn't need strong stuff. I will post exact weights before and after when I get home from work.



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    Before using clews: 868g.
    After using clews: 846g.


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  10. #210
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    ^it seems counterintuitive that clews would be lighter but all of these results are speaking for themselves. Thanks for posting.
    Last edited by Pra4sno; 01-24-2017 at 13:56.

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